Based on the rake + promo rake, the correct strategy is to mass multi-table these stakes and make all your profit from beast and rakeback. Doing anything else is sub-optimal, in my opinion, due to the rake at these stakes.

As for your question, I imagine there might be a handful of people who are beating the games, but anyone putting in any real volume is making all of their profit from RB + Beast. So, basically, it's grind the beast as a micro player or gtfo.

If the top couple guys are beating 100 and 200nl for 2 bb/100+ while playing 24 - 30 tables then my hat goes off to them. I seriously doubt anyone can maintain that winrate with that many tables on this software, in these games. In fact id say it cant be done, but please someone prove me wrong.

This is a far cry from 24 tabling on stars.

Email support. Get angry. This won't change with a few posts on 2p2.

You may be right. In which case, they're using profits from RB + Beast to offset losing at all stakes. In either case, it's "Grind Beast or GTFO".

I tried live chat earlier today, but I don't think it worked. The window "reset" back to the page where you put your question the first time. I tried again and it said my message had been forwarded. I think I'll email normal support tomorrow.

Either way, people really do need to start contacting support about this.

I only play non-JP tables - mostly sitting at 25NL HU or 6max waiting for games, I've tried to sit some regs at 6max to start games - but they seem to sit out on me now. It is pretty terrible, I'm lucky if I play 100-200 hands a day after work.

Someone should draft a letter that explains why we want them to get rid of the bbj/beast and have everyone send that to support.

And a link to this thread.

Signed, and would also be satisfied if they altered the payout structure not to be so topheavy. The leaders on the promo are seen playing from 18-22h a day with every table open on the site? Ninja please. It is so obviously botting or multi players on the account.

Flatten out the structure and you do two positive things, it would reduce the incentive for cheating to the point it would be much less worthwhile AND more players would be interested in competing and taking the promotion seriously. I see this as a win for the players and the house and probably the most reasonable outcome to this issue.

Bumping my own post b/c I feel so strongly about it. You have to be a total idiot to implement such rake structure, and a bigger one to actually consent and play with it.

This wouldn't solve the problem. The rake structure needs to be altered to be less severe at lower stakes otherwise you're still getting hammered and I personally don't want to have to count on a promotion to be able to profit regardless of volume.

How hard can it be to change the rake on 10-50nl BBJ/Beast tables?

And I agree with the post above, if they went as far as to remove it at micro stakes (5nl-50nl) there would be a lot more players and a much healthier and more sustainable ecosystem.

It needs to be removed at all levels.

This would be great! But at least remove it at small stakes!!

It doesn't even make sense for the site long term because they are giving away money to the top three players every month that just leaves the economy and can't be raked. The only way it makes sense for the site is if they think (or know) that the don't have long on the market and they have to make as much as possible in as short a time as possible. Then it's worth giving up that equity to the top three players and destroying the games because they're not gonna be around long enough to take advantage of the games long term. The owners of the site are either idiots or smart guys who don't think they have long left in business. BE WARNED!

It's amazing that none of you realize what they are doing is quite smart. They have plenty of traffic and the games are not drying up with them taking out tons of rake. In fact, I think I've seen an increase in traffic. Why would they change it? I know if I ran the site I wouldn't until everybody stopped playing there. That's really what it's going to take. People need to boycott the network. If the site owners see themselves losing money because of this, they will change it.

There is another motive. While I am NOT accusing ACR or the network or any of the top players, if any of the top winners are in any way associated with the network..... think about it.

I was actually thinking about this yesterday, too.

The only way their rake structure makes sense is if the site is simply one big cash grab. Which, from their complete silence on this issue, suggests that may be the case.

If that is the case, they'll never remove either promo because they are guaranteed six figures a year from each. And, they won't do a single thing about cheating in The Beast because any competition is excellent for them as it forces all players to play more and play longer, thus paying more rake and building a bigger Beast Jackpot for them to take their % out of.

With the majority of games on their site completely unbeatable due to rake + promo rake, they WANT everyone competing for their profit from The Beast so they, not only get the standard rake, but can get a larger % every month.

[QUOTE=oneonth3run;36591026]This wouldn't solve the problem. The rake structure needs to be altered to be less severe at lower stakes otherwise you're still getting hammered and I personally don't want to have to count on a promotion to be able to profit regardless of volume.

I hear a lot of people griping about the micro stakes being unbeatable due to the rake. I find that it is too easy to beat micro even with the rake, it is just boring as heck to play the proper style. I play 25-100NL, and I find the site to be soft. The biggest challenge is to keep myself in line.

I think the majority of people that whine the rake keeps them from winning are in denail. You just aren't as good as you think you are. Besides, your argument fails unless you were to get double your Beast payment and you still lose for the month. In that case getting tid of the Beast won't make you a winner either bro.

Signed, rake is ridiculous on this site and the odds of winning the bad beat is ridiculous. The site is pretty dead as it is.

[QUOTE=Annunaki;36633670] I'm not guessing. I can look at PT4 and see that I'm being molested by rake. I played half a million hands of 200nl up to black friday with a 3ptbb winrate and was running at 4ptbb on Merge before the switch. It isn't run-bad either. It's the rake. Period. All it does is motivate an unsustainable network and create games that are miserable to play in.

[QUOTE=Annunaki;36633670] I'm with oneonth3run. I can't vouch for the higher stakes games, but my data at 10NL and 25NL had me being raked for 17.5bb/100 - Thats almost TWO BUYINS EVERY 1K HANDS!!! If you're going by PT stats, you need to be beating these games at minimum 9bb/100 to break even.

What this does, is makes it so that trying to make your money at the tables is a losing strategy since 100% of your profits will be coming from rakeback + beast. At 10NL you'll never see any equity from the extra drop unless you hit your million to one bad beat jackpot, and, you don't get any beast payments, which means your making all your profit from rakeback (assuming you're able to break even to begin with). It's just as bad at 25NL but you at least get something back from the beast. As such, short stacking and mass multitabling becomes the only profitable strategy on these tables. That's the problem.

They're fourth in traffic, after Merge, Revolution and Bovada. Not something I'd expect from a room which has supposedly speedy cashouts. And for our purposes, 4th place = last place.

The rake sounds disgusting. I never played there, BUT I SIGN!

Lets all just STOP PLAYING. I have, and wont put another penny in play until the beast is gone.

I sort of do agree that the games are very soft at the micros but even so any winrate does get crushed with the rake there. Even the games I would normally be playing 200 and 400nl are not even half as good as on Merge.

So beatable, yes. Fun, no. Profitable, barely. Worth the time and effort to chase the beast, not a chance in hell.

was about to deposit on BCP again until I saw this thread.. thanks for saving me time and money! Will deposit after BBJ/Beast are gone.

Signed.BBJ/Beast/rake=rape (I like money too much to play there)