Signed.

I'm a recreational player that cannot beat the rake on this site. Won't deposit another $ on this site until Beast/BBJ are gone from 50NL and below.

The rewards system on this network is horrid. It basically takes all the money from the recreational players and gives it to the few high stakes grinders on the site. Not a way to keep a network alive.

Signed:

Even at 2/4 NL the rake is too high with the BBJ, I can only imagine what it is like at lower stakes and how difficult that makes it to win.

signed

signed, although I doubt anythings going to change.

lol whoever came up with the idea in the first place? Lets take tens of thousands a month from our regular base of players (who provide all the liquidity on the site) and give it all to three people (who will instantly cash out and take it out of the economy.)

I would email support and let them know you want the rake changed. I emailed them and got a fairly quick response (probably canned) that it would be forwarded to the management and programming team. If we flood them with enough emails maybe we can make it happen at least to some degree.

That's the thing tho, the live players don't mind that extra dollar drop for BBJ and any losses they say they "run bad" or "donks got lucky". And that they have a chance to win that BBJ. Lotto fallacy if I remember correctly. I think the fishes will continue to redeposit and play on the site, that's just my opinion though.

Just got an email about them adding a micro beast. Count me OUT

I think it's just a promotional race with no extra rake/drop. I haven't read up on it, so I'm not entirely certain. If it is an additional drop, for 2nl, 5nl, 10nl, it's time to switch sites. Hopefully, it's no additional drop.

Signed.

Signed, it is absolutely the worst thing to happen to online poker since black friday.

Signed
This is very bad for the poker ecosystem.

No additional drop - http://www.americascardroom.eu/portfolio/5k-micro-race/

I can't help but feel this is an attempt to try and make up for the Beast rape, but it's still not good enough to get me to think about depositing. Eliminate or minimize the number of Beast/BBJ tables, not run special promos to try and hide the fact that you are truly screwing micro players.

signed

Not to derail the thread or anything, but does anyone have any significant data regarding play on the BBJ tables?

I'm curious at what stakes does the promo drop + rake become manageable? (meaning, games are beatable without being phil ivey).

I played tens of thousands of hands at 10NL and 25NL BBJ and it's extremely difficult to beat those games. At 10N you're breaking even or making a very small profit + your rakeback. At 25NL all your profit is rakeback + beast payments.

Does it get better at 50NL? 100NL? I imagine at 100NL, where the drop becomes 1/4 a big blind as opposed to 1 big blind at 25NL, that the games become beatable?

I played 1/2 and 2/4 on merge with a 5.93 bb/100 winrate. Since the switch Ive only played about 25k hands at 200nl and my winrate is now 1.01 bb/100. Granted zero sample size but with the games the way they are I dont see it going much higher than 2 or 2.5.

Im sure you can be profitable at 200nl even with the beast, just not anywhere close to a winrate you might have previously had elsewhere.

And for the record since my beast run starting this month, im at a -5.01 winrate at 25 and 50nl lol. Probably bc im awful at playing 20 tables (on software that lags so bad you have about .5 secs to make a decision before timing out), but still seems too ridiculous. Going to put in as many hands this month as I normally would all year

After this month theres no way ill put another penny in play at WPN unless the beast/bbj go.

What do you think it's going to take for them to wise up and remove BBJ?

Large amounts of angry emails demanding it be changed or removed + posting about it in as many places as possible and a significant amount of people leaving the site.

I haven't played in 3 weeks solely because of the rake and won't until it changes for the better. I was putting in 30k + hands a month on Merge before the move.

I refuse to be a Beast slave.

It's a **** shame, because with a few simple moves they could easily dominate the US poker market.

O and I forgot to mention that even with the pace im at, probably going to play 200k hands this month, Ill be lucky to get 6th place.

To me thats just insane, and for all that work ill probably only make a grand or two. With my hourly wr at Merge that would be about 10 hours worth of play. At WPN its going to be approx. 160 hrs.

Its just not worth trying to grind the beast unless you can actually win it, and no one can seem to beat MamaCoolJ.

Conclusion: I lose.

You might get a couple thousand back from the Beast BEFORE counting what you lose from playing those tables. I would be suprised if you can maintain a positive winrate playing 200k+ hands a month. So your winnings for the month are the beast payout plus whatever losses your rakeback or VIP make up for. You could very well break even including rb/vip and therefore your only profit is what you get back from the Beast. Meaning that if you play lower than 100nl, unless you are placing in the top 5-6 for the Beast, it will be very hard to turn much of a profit unless you run hot, which of course won't last. It's a become a crapshoot for practically everyone playing less than 100nl.

Yea, in order to have a shot at 1st place, you need 4500 points per day, which basically means you need to play every available beast table from 25NL up to 200NL for 10-15hrs a day. Sounds fun.

I think the thing to beating the beast, aside from the massive volume, is that your winrate at 100NL+ needs to be at least enough to cover your losses at 25NL and 50NL, because, since the drop is a larger % based on big blinds, you're going to be losing money (most likely) at these stakes while playing 30-40 tables. Hopefully, you're able to procure a 2bb/100 winrate at 100nl+ to offset the losses from 25NL and 50NL and then all your profit is rakeback + beast. I'd imagine this is exactly how it works out for the guys finishing in the top 3 every month.

Is there anyone actually beating 25NL over a decent sample? I've only played about 10K hands but it seems like I'm bleeding money... I think I'm losing like 100 big blinds per 1000 hands to the rake + beast and it seems like you would have to pretty much crush the games to even win here.

The promo just makes no sense whatsoever. I'm still baffled that they still run it and people still play there when its near impossible to beat the rake at nl50 and nl25.

They would be crushing the us market if they dropped it.