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Trouble: Online poker web sites seized by the FBI (Stars + Tilt included) Trouble: Online poker web sites seized by the FBI (Stars + Tilt included)

04-30-2011 , 02:30 AM
Are you really serious?

Of course no one has picked up a gun to protect the right to deal cards and wager money. They've died for the right to protect the personal liberties envisioned by our ancestors.

Clearly the founding fathers were a much more conservative bunch and they could be as intolerant as anyone, but in a desire to achieve their their own personal freedom they granted that freedom to all and created a living, breathing document which evolved to grant freedom to all men.

They didn't envision free will for blacks and women, but they created an environment which fostered this evolution.

I have no doubt that, born today, our founding fathers would be appalled by the extent of government intervention in the lives of individual Americans.

Clearly we've fought wars for all kinds of reasons - some valid and some not so. But in the wars that really meant something (1775, 1861, 1914, 1941), men fought to preserve a way of life.

I don't need a history lesson to know what free men should stand for. Men haven't died for poker, but they've fought and died for the rights of individuals to make their own path in life - to be free from the tyranny of the few.
Trouble: Online poker web sites seized by the FBI (Stars + Tilt included) Quote
04-30-2011 , 02:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashedout
^ Well maybe almost any other war. Was not the Franco-American War fought to preserve the liberty of merchant ships doing business in the Caribbean?

We live in a society with too many laws enacted unlawfully, to the extent that no one really knows if they are breaking any specific law. This is why people have to rely on morals and ethics of conduct. It is not immoral to receive money from a shady payment processor which would under other circumstances be rightfully yours or to smoke pot, but to do either requires a conscious act of ignoring existing legislation.
[x] franco
[x] american
[ ] war

a better one would have been the civil war but theres problems calling the civil war a war for liberty sincem at the end of the day it was about giving more, not less, power to the federal government.
Trouble: Online poker web sites seized by the FBI (Stars + Tilt included) Quote
04-30-2011 , 02:50 AM
i have played bodog and was woundering which us freindly site has the most valume and highest cash games ava.?
Trouble: Online poker web sites seized by the FBI (Stars + Tilt included) Quote
04-30-2011 , 02:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mazile
Are you really serious?

Of course no one has picked up a gun to protect the right to deal cards and wager money. They've died for the right to protect the personal liberties envisioned by our ancestors.

Clearly the founding fathers were a much more conservative bunch and they could be as intolerant as anyone, but in a desire to achieve their their own personal freedom they granted that freedom to all and created a living, breathing document which evolved to grant freedom to all men.

They didn't envision free will for blacks and women, but they created an environment which fostered this evolution.

I have no doubt that, born today, our founding fathers would be appalled by the extent of government intervention in the lives of individual Americans.

Clearly we've fought wars for all kinds of reasons - some valid and some not so. But in the wars that really meant something (1775, 1861, 1914, 1941), men fought to preserve a way of life.

I don't need a history lesson to know what free men should stand for. Men haven't died for poker, but they've fought and died for the rights of individuals to make their own path in life - to be free from the tyranny of the few.

of your examples, the civil war is questionable -- it was really a war about the power of the federal government over the states, not slavery.

Im not sure what "way of life" you think we were fighting for in WWI. The US entered the war, which began as a conflict between two totalitarian monarchies, primarily to break the deadlock and end it.
Trouble: Online poker web sites seized by the FBI (Stars + Tilt included) Quote
04-30-2011 , 03:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetAtMe41
i'm sorry to bother. but I was just curious.. someone commented "ARWL" do you know what that means?
Some context would have been useful.

Possibly: America Responds With Love?
Trouble: Online poker web sites seized by the FBI (Stars + Tilt included) Quote
04-30-2011 , 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Tall
I have sent an email to: blackcard@fulltiltpoker.com, support@fulltiltpoker.com, support@fulltiltpoker.co.uk, every day since Black Friday.

I am not asking for much. I was a Black Card and still am (technically), and have sent an email a day to support and BlackCard support.

I withdrew $500 from my account on the morning of Black Friday and all I have asked was to return it to my account.

I have also asked what is the procedure to change my address if I were to move out of the country.

No one has responded.

NONE. ZERO. NADA.

I have considered asking our Euro-players to organize a sit-out until some questions are answered. Or at least ONE email. I will post updates when I have the time.

Something is drastically wrong here, all players on FTP should be alarmed.

Thanks,
Joe
You should have received an e-mail yesterday from FT with an update and a link to a new FAQ
Trouble: Online poker web sites seized by the FBI (Stars + Tilt included) Quote
04-30-2011 , 07:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireFighter
You should have received an e-mail yesterday from FT with an update and a link to a new FAQ
Talk of a sit-out, email the next day, coincidence?
Trouble: Online poker web sites seized by the FBI (Stars + Tilt included) Quote
04-30-2011 , 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mazile
Are you really serious?

Of course no one has picked up a gun to protect the right to deal cards and wager money. They've died for the right to protect the personal liberties envisioned by our ancestors.

Clearly the founding fathers were a much more conservative bunch and they could be as intolerant as anyone, but in a desire to achieve their their own personal freedom they granted that freedom to all and created a living, breathing document which evolved to grant freedom to all men.

They didn't envision free will for blacks and women, but they created an environment which fostered this evolution.
I have no doubt that, born today, our founding fathers would be appalled by the extent of government intervention in the lives of individual Americans.

Clearly we've fought wars for all kinds of reasons - some valid and some not so. But in the wars that really meant something (1775, 1861, 1914, 1941), men fought to preserve a way of life.

I don't need a history lesson to know what free men should stand for. Men haven't died for poker, but they've fought and died for the rights of individuals to make their own path in life - to be free from the tyranny of the few.
I don't agree with this. One of the reasons that slavery wasn't really dealt with in the constitution* is that many assumed that it would collapse under its own weight sooner rather than later. Even some of the founders who owned slaves considered slavery unsustainable as an institution.

-----------------------

*Slaves being counted as 3/5 of a person was not done to promote slavery or to disenfranchise blacks. By not counting a slave as a full person, this made it more difficult for slave states to increase their political power by increasing their populations with large numbers of imported slaves.
Trouble: Online poker web sites seized by the FBI (Stars + Tilt included) Quote
04-30-2011 , 10:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AEPpoker
[x] franco
[x] american
[ ] war

a better one would have been the civil war but theres problems calling the civil war a war for liberty sincem at the end of the day it was about giving more, not less, power to the federal government.
I think that almost every war with US involvement was at least partly about someone's liberty, such as the Gulf War (we kicked an occupation force out of Kuwait) or WWII (we liberated France and shut down German concentration camps).

The US isn't perfect, but most of the time we're the good guys.
Trouble: Online poker web sites seized by the FBI (Stars + Tilt included) Quote
04-30-2011 , 10:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poker Clif
I don't agree with this. One of the reasons that slavery wasn't really dealt with in the constitution* is that many assumed that it would collapse under its own weight sooner rather than later. Even some of the founders who owned slaves considered slavery unsustainable as an institution.

-----------------------

*Slaves being counted as 3/5 of a person was not done to promote slavery or to disenfranchise blacks. By not counting a slave as a full person, this made it more difficult for slave states to increase their political power by increasing their populations with large numbers of imported slaves.

I don't think you correctly read what you highlighted on the post you're responding to.
Trouble: Online poker web sites seized by the FBI (Stars + Tilt included) Quote
04-30-2011 , 10:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poker Clif
such as the Gulf War (we kicked an occupation force out of Kuwait) or WWII (we liberated France and shut down German concentration camps).

The US isn't perfect, but most of the time we're the good guys.
And restored a totalitarian monarch to power.

WWII was one of the few i acknowledged was about liberty.
Trouble: Online poker web sites seized by the FBI (Stars + Tilt included) Quote
05-08-2011 , 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktulu22
What a country. GG internet poker as we know it.

Where are all the people that clamored that the status quo was just fine and dandy and would last for years and years?
Yeah, what does it matter to you? You were a losing player playing with $5000 worth of scammed funds.
Trouble: Online poker web sites seized by the FBI (Stars + Tilt included) Quote
07-02-2011 , 06:50 AM
The only question that now remains is does the USA now suck even worse for poker players under Obama than it did under under Bush?

I may have to wave bye bye to my $100 on FTP but at least the FBI won't be knocking on my door. That is unless they have world jurisdiction. What a shame that the 'land of the free' is now the land of the deluded..
Trouble: Online poker web sites seized by the FBI (Stars + Tilt included) Quote
08-11-2011 , 06:19 AM
Is there any more news on this matter, or do we have to wait until the trial? I heard rumors about a take-over of FT, any news on that?
Trouble: Online poker web sites seized by the FBI (Stars + Tilt included) Quote
08-11-2011 , 07:08 AM
Worst bump of all time... seriously
Trouble: Online poker web sites seized by the FBI (Stars + Tilt included) Quote
09-21-2011 , 10:08 AM
Reading the full tilt allegations, this sounds sadly familiar. So much for the segregated accounts theory.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanuck
I strongly doubt that anyone, us residents or otherwise, will be able to withdraw money from their accounts. I thought some of these points would have been obvious to anybody with some business sense, but perhaps not...

When you make a deposit at a branch of your bank, say for $1000, do you think the bank keeps your money in a vault or something so that you can ask for it anytime you want? Do you think they do that for all their customers? Obviously not. You make the deposit, and your balance is updated electronically. But the bank does not keep your money, waiting for you to take it out. That money gets invested, is lent out to other individuals and businesses, pays for bank expenses and salaries, etc. etc. The point is, your balance becomes a number "on paper". So is everyone else's. If every customer were to all of a sudden go to their branch and ask to withdraw all the money from their account at the same time, the bank wouldn't be able to do this because it just doesn't have the money on hand. The balance only exists as a number on paper or on a computer.

Your balance on a poker site is also just a number. There is no regulation that requires that the full balance of what is currently sitting in your "account" be set aside somewhere that you can access instantaneously. And why would they even do that (allow billions of dollars to just sit in account as cash) from a business perspective? Certainly, they would not expect to have to pay out significant sums of money at any given time. They might keep a certain amount in reserve for payouts for cash-flow purposes, but this will probably be just a fraction of the balances currently held by all the players. The rest of the money is already gone and spent... To run the business, pay out salaries, pay the owners, make investments (non-liquid) etc.

My point is that those players who expect that they can simply make a withdraw request and that their account balance should magically appear in their own personal bank accounts are simply fooling themselves. The money has to come from somewhere. They can write you a cheque from their account, but if there isn't money in that account, it will bounce. Even if it temporarily shows up in your own personal account, if the bank isn't able to clear the cheque, the deposit will be reversed. They can approve a wire to your account, and tell you that this has been done, but until someone actually initiates the wire transfer and the transaction clears (assuming they even have the money to wire), you will not get your money.

They will tell you to keep playing and not to worry... Because until you actually try to withdraw money, all they need to do is update your balance electronically. They don't actually have to pay anything out. They will tell you, at least if you are not a us resident, that you can take your money out at any time... What I'm saying is that people need to be realistic and accept the fact that the money may not exist to be given back to you anymore. And even if it is in account, if the bank is told to hold it or risk being liable for any amounts that it allows to be transferred out to players, do you think the banks are going to jump on the request and have the money sent to you?

Eventually, if things go back to normal, you may be able to get your money back. But for now, i think you should recognize that the balance in your "account" is really, just a number on someone's books... And that you aren't going to see it anytime soon... No matter what they are telling you.[/LIST]
Trouble: Online poker web sites seized by the FBI (Stars + Tilt included) Quote

      
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