Thank you. We agree on that point.

Two strawmen in one, congratulations. Other people having an agenda does not preclude you from having one, and I am not looking for anything. Again, you assume you know what I am thinking and my motivations without basis for that assumption.

"The onus should be on the sites to prove their game is fair."

To be fair, it's more of an agendum.

And I would note that coin poker, a site with a provably fair RNG, has decent traffic now.

I did a bit of reading on coin poker a while back. It's very close to what I would consider a fair game. Alas, it's based on fairy tokens so I won't be participating. A site which takes normal deposits and has a proven fair deal algorithm is still too much to ask for in 2023 apparently. Maybe one day.

Coinpoker uses Tether which is pegged to the US dollar. It's easier to get money on the site than many major sites, and cashouts are essentially instant and free, very different from all the major sites. The native token, CHP, is used for rakeback only and can be bought for tether on site. Or not, if you don't want rakeback.
You can literally deposit, play and withdraw in the same session. No cash site offers anything like that convenience.

Just for interest, what is the difference between Coin and what you consider fair if it's only 'very close'?

Things like this I guess:

And this:

I haven't played there and don't intend to. Obviously don't let that stop you. You go for it.

You seem to be suggesting that you won't play there because some random person online is suggesting that the provably fair RNG is rigged to deal coolers. Looks like being provably fair won't stop claims of being rigged, nor attract those who claim to want that feature. Ok. Perhaps one day you'll find a site where everyone is above average, and they are all winners.

I guess the onus is now on the site to track him down and prove to him and the rest of the online world that he was just unlucky.

I don't play on coin, I find holdem boring.

I'd never dismiss it if someone shows that their overpair loses to underpair 5000 times out of 10000, because that's less likely to happen by chance than a developer being malicious. Bonus points would be awarded for explaining the motive behind this, apart from "the site prefers random fish A over random fish B".

Yes, they generally should
Because the random online lunatics and whiners complain, they discredit from those of us who genuinely care about the integrity of online poker.

When I proved that cheating was taking place at Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet around 15 years ago, I did it by doing a proper analysis and publishing the data. These losers who whine discredit themselves, and undermine the integrity of the games, by making it harder to differentiate from the random losers and the people who actually do uncover fraud etc.

This is because it's a rake trap.

Online Poker has become so profitable and is completely unregulated. A poker site might even claim to be 'certified' but in reality, that certification is based on a scheduled viewing of their algorithm bot. The legal loophole is that... surprise surprise... they don't have to run that version online they just have to be verified. In addition to that.. you are 'depending' on multiple middle aged men or women not accepting a $10,000,000 bribe. If you think some middle aged man on his second divorce isn't going to watch the world burn for $10 million, you're insane.

There is a reason they have all legally located themselves in the 'Isle of Mann', which is an area extremely notorious for illegal operations and easy to pay off officials.

It's also hilarious how easily persuaded people are:

1) Ignition/Bovada "We don't allow usernames because we don't want sharks hunting fish". A shark can find a fish at a table no matter what their username is. Even a shark can go on tilt and another shark takes advantage. What they really mean is "we own shares of the Russian Bot Rings that have been PROVEN to operate on every level of our sites, and don't want players getting discouraged when losing to the same bot names over and over".

2) Global Poker "We don't allow hand data and stats because we want to protect our users". Translation "We don't want our cash deposit whales to look up their loses with premium hands and realize our site is rigged for coolers and buyins. The longer it takes them to figure out they are losing everything with QQ+ the better". Does anyone actually think a top level poker player can't watch a mediocre reg and modify his play. "Wow, I know this guy is a nit so I'm only going to call an allin with KK+ or maybe even AA". "Wow, I know this guy is loose so I'm going to call an allin with 99+". Anyhow, complete bullshit.

Hilarious as well that Global Poker also introduced a 30% rakeback. Very nice for the designated winners (streamers and previously active matched names on forums) . Notice how you never see regs winning tourneys on Global Poker, and how despite what looks like a pretty low player pool, their tournaments always fill up. Tournaments filled up with bots that are scheduled to end around the same time every time, to get the losers into another tourney. Don't believe me? Then you simply haven't used the site.

It's hilarious when they do give you the short term greenlight to win on these sites, though. Obviously to create a huge dopamine spike that you associate with the gambling on their site. After one session on Global where I couldn't even lose a hand when I tried to (I went allin with 32o and called a very obvious mutiplayer AA KK hand with J6o and won both, unreal chances of that happening in live poker). Like I was trying to lose hands on purpose because something wasn't making sense. That would never happen in live.

When Global Poker does their doomswitch to a regular player (not a designated streamer/forum winner), it's one of the most obvious things since water being wet. You can actually FEEL them trying to take your money away. "Okay so I just flopped a set of 8's, the only thing that can beat me now is runner runner broadway, which is an 8% x 8% roughly 1% chance. 1 in 100 chances to lose this hand. Oh wow, there's that Jack. 8% chance, and based on the amount of coolers I've had in a row, I couldn't possibly have bad luck again right? 1 in 100. There's that Queen. BROADWAY LOSS. Oh, and I forgot to add in the mathematical chances that this type of hand happens and he has the Ace King.

1 in 100 chance of runner runner multipled by the chance to have a pair in your hand (~6), multiplied by the chance of him having Ace King. (1.21%) = 0.00072 of a %.
0.00072 of a % and these types of hands happen back to back to back on Global Poker until your buyins are gone. Then you come on a forum like this that has paid poker shills aka 'global army' that will tell you 'buddy you're just bad, that's variance to lose 10 buyins to runner runners".

There's a huge difference to losing to pairs and runners and allins vs draws than losing to double running cards 10 times in a row. One is about an 8-16% chance. The other is less than 1% in many cases. A 1% chance 10 times in a row is mathematically impossible. But notice how if you read these forums and ignore the shill posts and comments, every single nonsponsored or active forum reg is saying the same thing is happening to them. Let me guess? We all just have the absolute worst luck in the world.

Then of course, magically when I drive to my local casino, I'm somehow making 6 figures a year part time and have never had 10 mega coolers in a row. I've had variance live, and that's why I know what variance is. There's a difference between variance and a site not allowing you to win at all. And it's not just your hands aren't hitting, it's the opponent hits something on those hands so you can't raise or bluff. It's programmed to literally drain your buyins down. It's just depressing because online poker is so convenient, but like all things online it is completely corrupted. Fake boobs in porn, fake variance in online poker.

The other day my buddy who also plays on Global screenshared me. "You gotta see what's happening to believe it" he said. I told him "Trust me I already know. Every hand is missing and the ones that hold or hit have runner runners"? I turn on his screenshare on my second monitor and he's getting mathematically impossible luck. Runner runners vs his set of Kings that only lose vs one hand vs a reg who of course has that hand. That's the 'odd' part about these things. I watched him lose 5 buyins before I told him "I can't take this anymore man, just turn the site off and don't come back to it, forget about the balance". It's not just that the weird runners were happening to all his major pots, it's that they were happening and every single damn time, the opponent had the two cards that connected to them. Reminded me of when I lost 10 buyins playing pretty much perfect poker.

so you've had a losing session?

The vast majority of people who try online poker eventually snap out of it. They are unregulated (they only have to verify their RNG to an official once a year, and there's a legal loophole where they don't even have to use that algorithm, they just have to prove they have something capable of it.

The formula goes like this, on every site. They've figured out the most profitable way to run poker to extract money from regs and fishes. Basically you get on Poker, you start losing so your cortisol and stress hormones spike. Then, when the chips are down a bit, you will start hitting miracle runouts. Usually this will get you about 3 or more buyins worth. These are a runouts that make no sense. You will get rewarded for calling 3 gutshots in a row even though the chance of hitting 3 gutshots in a row is around 6% x 6% x 6% given the chance that at least one player probably has that card in the hand who folded or is also playing. Winning these insane runouts that have pretty much no mathematical chance of happening gives an insane dopamine rush to the user, basically even greater than hard drugs, which is why gambling has such a horrible addiction rate.

Because the 'chips were down' and then the player gets insane runouts, it creates a new and extremely strong pathway in the brain, that lets the user know that if they can deal with some loses- they will eventually get that giant insane runout. This conditions the customer to feel like that 'win' is just around the corner. However, this is when the 'doom switch' happens. After their insane runout, they will begin to lose every single hand. It won't be like the regular poker you are used to. It's hands where you both have marginal or connector hands and it becomes painfully obvious they have it every time. So you can't bluff, you can't call, and you're basically forced to fold every hand. As soon as you play a hand here you will lose a stack. All of a sudden you notice you've lost more than a full buyin just having to fold premium hands like JJ, QQ, lower straights that flopped for you, sets that had runner runner suited cards, etc. All of a sudden you're down 2 buyins.

You realize you've had probably 10 coolers in a row at this point in the back of your head- but because the site has conditioned the user to think a 'win' is just around the corner, you have seeds of self doubt. "I was winning earlier, if I can just hold out I'm sure they will miss their draw or gutshot". Then it happens. You're down to 1 or 2 buyins. You get Aces. You either get the aces extremely early position, and end up having 2-3 callers, or some guy reraises you. You know he has Kings or AK. You reraise, he allins. You think for a second "I've lost to 10-15 coolers in a row now, am I really going to lose with Aces for the remainder of my stack?". You call. He has Ace King offsuit, and you're thinking 'what a moron, he knows I'm only playing 18% so I'm KK+ here). The flop looks great for a second. T23. Second card comes down. Jack. "Is he really going to hit a one outter for my 16th cooler in a row?". You can actually see the card on the table already. There's that Queen. Your run is over.

At this point, they are depending on that dopamine pathway being so strong that you rebuy. And in many cases you will, especially because having so many coolers in a row is tilting, and emotional people don't think logically. A logical person would say out loud "15 coolers in a row is mathematically impossible".

The other dead giveaway about this is how this happens on sites that are super soft. You can even select a table full of fish, you will eventually get a doomswitch and the fish will cooler you with every runout.

Again, these sites are completely unregulated. You're trusting a giant group of programmers whose sole purpose is to increase site profits to..... not increase site profits. You'd have to be dumber than a fish to believe in that. But then again, there's billions of people who believe in an invisible god in the sky watching their every move with 2 eyes for 8 billion people. Rebuy!

And if I sound sour about this, it's because I am. I enjoy playing live poker as it is my profession. However, online poker like many online sites that are profitable has been exploited to the max. Collusion, bot rings (3rd party funded by the sites that they run on btw), housebots, algorithms used to tilt/rebuy are things that don't exist on that level in live poker. Sure, there are cheaters in live poker, but you get to look at them and it's pretty easy to figure out when 2 people at a table have a connection, and you can simply leave or report them to the casino where they will kick them out. I've gotten tons of cheaters kicked out of my casino, but online the cheaters are the billionaire owners. Hard to kick them out, lol.

If you don't believe me, just do a minimum cashin on a site like Global Poker and ONE TABLE at any low to medium stakes. That's the thing about online gambling, they want the user to get addicted. They don't just let the user have a winning spree with random pairs and dominated hands that call eachother. They want you to get a boat, get quads, hit that insane nuts straight, etc. They want a powerful dopamine pathway created with the user. You can't blame them, either. It's their job to make money. If I was unregulated and had no morals, I'd do the exact same thing. "Haha give him quads 2x in a row and then a full house flop so he gets a powerful addiction and wants to come back even if he loses money"

Is there any way to do this repeatedly? Do the fish get unlimited rungood if they just keep playing bad (in terms of a fair game, actually good play if they abuse the riggedness obv)
It just sounds obvious that if you know how it's rigged, you can just crush the games by overplaying the 32o and J6o every time, and folding KK+. Even the usual fish who'd normally punt their 3-highs will probably misplay their "premiums" not knowing they'll actually lose.

I'd guess that as he's a winning live pro, he's obviously good enough to realise the online site thinks he's the fish at the table, so he will continue to play badly to foil the site's master plan, thereby reaping the profits.

Clever.

I cannot prove something shady, but 100 % there can be falts in the software that makes hands look very shady by paying the wrong player out, and the winner gets nothing

I remember when Pot Ripper was accused of being a super user by Mike Matusow and poker community told him to get better and laughed at him and anyone else that accused Pot Ripper of cheating was told the same thing. Well the poker site accidently sent a hand history to one of the people complaining about Pot Ripper but it was in codes he didn't understand. A software engineer took the information and put all the hand history together in a video to prove Pot Ripper was cheating. It took a software engineer to prove there was super user in online poker. Before he made the video proving Pot Ripper was cheating everyone was ignored and told to get better. I don't think any information on cheating should be ignored because if that software engineer dismissed them like you guys are doing then nobody would of ever found not 1 but several super users on the site. Instead they should get more involved and find people that can maybe turn their information into proof of the cheating going on if multiple people are complaining about the same players.

I don't think anything should be dismissed unless someone is complaining about a small sample size. Variance does exist. And it can get very ugly in short periods of time where it could look as though someone is cheating, but they are not. Your odds of even beating a bad player in poker is only like 55% in short period of play. It is barely over a coin flip guys. If you want to play poker, there is no way around it. You are going to lose and lose a lot playing at even an elite level. Most of the time people ask questions about hands, they played the hand pretty much perfectly. They just lost and are trying to find some strategy where they wont lose in that situation in the future. But it just creates leaks in their overall game. What ends up happening is they play a worse strategy and they lose a lot then complain people are cheating. But I see it in their hand history they are deviating from optimal strategy in these given situations cause they been losing. Most of the time people are losing cause they don't believe in what works and they deviate. Then get frustrated and call everyone cheaters. You wont get better at poker playing victim. Doesn't mean people are not cheating either, but the focus should still be on finding leaks in your game and fixing them. Not come on poker forum and complain of cheating on a small sample size. If you are a grinder that has played a lot hands for many years and you spot some players that you believe are cheating that is different, but you have to show some proof. There is so much good info on here to make all of you better poker players instead of focusing on cheating over small sample sizes. Focus on getting better and if there is cheating trust me the grinders will find them and report them to poker site.

I'm pretty sure you have a way better chance than 55% of beating a bad player if they are -bb/100, some players you can basically play like a monkey against and still print because of how bad they are lol

I think that everything in the opening of your post there is simply false.

-Mike Matusow was not an early complainant of the cheating of Pot Ripper and others

-No one laughed at either myself or the other original complainants, because we provided data to support our allegations.


This is false: I proved the cheating was taking place before my friend Nat made the video. The video was helpful in explaining it to people outside of the poker community (indeed, in my video with 60 Minutes, they mistakenly claimed that I made the video) but it was a cherry on top, not the substantial case of cheating.