The games are far fishier and looser than any Vegas game I have ever seen.

There's more to the difference in poker demographics from LV to LA than can be attributed to just the buy-in size.

The limit games are known to be crazier and fishier generally in California too. And the short-stack thing has nothing to do with those games.

wat is a min max

the $400 buy in game with 5/10 obviously generates a ton of action. i was around when they first started NL in cali and im sure they had rake in mind more than anything. if you guys are ever in cali and like a loose game where top pair is usually golden, head to commerce. 24 hours a day 7 days a week there are games going. 40bbs to start lol, maybe thats why i buy in for 60bbs and feel comfortable online.

As I said before...perhaps in this thread or maybe it was in another...in Florida they have a state-law for $100 max buy-in. But they still have 2/5 and even 5/10 NL in some places.

I really want to hit that 5/10NL $100-max. First few hands are just crazy all-in fests as players pretty much just trade chips so that they all can have something reasonable to work with...like 30 or 40BB's or something HUGE!!

you don't seem to get it, so here goes


ok so they are talking about B&M, and B&M mortar casinos having 20bb-100bb as the standard, which isn't the case in Vegas or anywhere else as far as I know

you respond with

Maxbuyin at 1/2 is 20bb, so again it doesn't meet the 20-100 requirement, the 5/10 game being 40-40bb also fails

how fishy the games are is irrelevant to discussion on the standard buyin for B&M casinos(which isn't 20-100 like shortstackingyo suggests it is)

So now, we have different tables with different rules to satisfy different interests, anything wrong with that?

Just because rules exist doesn't mean they're optimal. In my hypothetical scenario where the player who picked the highest blinds got them, saying that "those are the rules, so quit complaining" is a pretty lousy defence. There would be no great obstacle to simply creating both short and deep-stacked SNGs in that situation and hardly any reason not to do so (unless you think the shortstackers' preferences should for some reason always take precedence over the deepstackers').

The live game buy-in argument is pretty stupid.

If shortstack/ratholing became a problem in a brick-and-mortar casino to the point that a good portion of the player base was complaining you can bet that they would likely change their rules to solve the problem.

The truth is that shortstack/ratholing is much less common in live games for many reasons.

Not really. I don't believe I ever said there was... I agree. Often games can be exploited. When this happens rules can be changed to fix such a problem. No it isn't. He is exploiting the rules to give him his best shot at winning. End of story. Those that whine about that are on par with those that whine about people that checkraise. Those who play tight exploit the rule allowing one to fold. Etc.

Rules could change all of these, but until they do these actions are completely fair game and those that whine about some abstract sense of what is really poker are clowns who are trying to frame a question of taste as a question of How Things Are Really Supposed To Be. Just like the old nit whining about checkraising...

Absolutely. I don't. My whole point is that if the rules allow for a shortstack to exploit other players, there is nothing wrong with doing so. Ask for the rules to be changed because you don't like having to deal with play rewarded by the rules structure. No problem.

It is those that whine about other people playing an optimal strategy as said strategy is "Not Really Poker" or somesuch that sound foolish and naive.

True.

Although when the poker room down the road finally opens I am tempted to start shortstacking the NL if possible. I can just sit at a table with the min buy in and after doubling up just leave and go play limit since I'm a limit player and like that better anyway...

Why do guys like curtains and pillars shortstack on pokerstars when they obviously have enough of a roll to buy in for the maximum?

Is it about +EV or is it a software thing/easier to multitable?