Anyone have a large sample of standard HU stats to compare?

I will write more later, after i come over my 16bi loss.
Feel like Eric Cartman when he competes in the special olmpics, either im cheated or i have gone ******ed.

I have 560k+ hu hands of mine atm. Pretty certain I can't find anything remotely close to these results/stats over any given 7.5k hand sample. That said, I play very differently than villians.

Doh! Sorry man. I uhhh hope you were cheated?

I have hands versus some of them u mention before.
I have been playing here for like 6 months and i have never seen anything like this site, first we had people getting suspended for teamplaying later they came back with new nicks and got suspended again.
Then many people cant get out money same with rb, I have some other clues whats going on but have to wait until I had some food.

http://************/image/q9jdnwnl5/
Got some good flopps before, then this happens.

After looking over our new sample from Iwinnomore it seems that pumpmyroll does not fit the same mold as the rest. He was the guy we had the least hands on from Binbs and while he plays similarly there are just too many counter examples coming from him.

I've combined stats from Binbs and Iwinnomore and removed pumpmyroll from the list. 6649 hands in all.

hands won/hands played

raised pf- 1262/1383 91.3%

3b- 255/286 89.2%

4b- 28/32 80%*

raise flop- 20/21 95.2%

bet flop- 338/362 93.4%

bet turn- 178/187 95.2%

bet river- 116/119 97.5%

Hands where villain won or lost 20bb + 69/74 93.2%

*One was w/ kk which lost to TJ, one was 99 losing to AKo AIPF, and two of the hands Iwinnomore 5b shoved with relative garbage which was assumedly better than their garbage (K3o and 76). The guy that folded to one of those was the same guy that called me in the exact same spot w/ 82o when I 5b shove 54s.

bump so more plp can see it.

I think you should post this elsewhere to get more attention, you have pretty strong evidences and this whole thing is so ****ed up, it should get much more attention, NVG maybe?
good luck to all of you involved.

I have nothing really to say here, but this thread is very possibly quite interesting/important so it gets 5 stars. Good luck getting to the truth and a positive resolution.

Thanks man. We've emailed them now basically saying that if we haven't received real and tangible feedback from them by the 22nd then we are going all out as far as LGA(I know, I know), poker news sources, etc,...

Thanks!

I seriously thinks you will get nowhere when you are contacting the site for answers, this network feels like its located in a underground office where all the workers are playing against us grinders.
I have 4 more names that has ridiculously high % winnings, I will post it when I gone through the hands and can post the %.
And just so people know, its pretty hard to get out money from the site, waited like 1 month.

Yeah, well I don't think any of us are particularly optimistic about it but we wanted to give them a chance before we went forward with a few things.

nvg isn't a bad idea ... some writes check this part of the forum and a lot of news start as a thread

Thanks for getting all of this together btw.

I find it curious that this is your first and only post

another possibility here that may sound strange to some of you guys is a bunch of really advanced winning HU bots with timing-based AI programmed into them.

i'm not prepared to delve into this further, but I'm starting to find bots at the 50-400nl HU stakes that have some VERY advanced AI to go along with an already solid winning strategy....yes winning HU cash bots.

one of the most striking features these bots have is the ability to develop "reads" based on your timing and possibly bet sizing(need to test this more).

i wont name any sites or names just yet but lets just say I've played some really really really good bots at HU cash lately and I was able to identify some sort of timing-based programming in their code....i've tested this extensively, and I'm absolutely sure its happening(thanks in large part to ridiculous HH policy on a certain site).

to elaborate further....

lets say you had access to master-HHs...ie. hand histories where you are able to see all the hole cards of all opponents regardless if they went to showdown or not.

now lets say you're a high level bot-programmer with experience in programming "random" timing of actions into your bots to avoid detection by both players and the sites alike.

now what happens when a clever bot designer realizes they could record the timing of their opponents actions in real time and then go back and compare them with the master-HHs later and identify patterns and exploit them....combine that with stats from a HUD....

tada! bots that can actually make reads based on the TIMING of your bets/checks/calls/etc...obviously good players will have less tendencies to exploit but my point is that these bots are so good that they are no longer playing a static strategies or relying solely on the HUD stats of their opponents to develop a game plan.
these bots are adjusting on the fly based on multiple criteria including the timing of their opponents actions.

the river seems to be the street where timing-tells are the most prevalent and most profitable when exploited....i know a bunch of good HU players are rolling their eyes because I'm pointing this out but this ring of bots has absolutely ravaged the HU cash games on one or more sites and I suspect this could be related.

So is there any news? Or how can it be that after such tremendous accusation, which is not only bad for the network, but also for the remaining players, who maybe now have to face a decrease in traffic, nothing has happened so far since 10 days? Now this thread is open, nobody knows more than that superusers are possible, the accused players have not been Seen at the tables since then, but nothing more. Or is there a Solution by now?

Are you talking about Bodog? Send me a PM please.


Im still waiting for the site to contact me. Ive been hassling them in the past two weeks but they keep delaying it, saying they are still looking into it.

They also contacted one of us and said they want to resolve it but would need for us to sign NDA's lol

Mergin. Do some of these bots have very very fishy stats?

That would explain a ****ton of things from my small site.

Good stuff. I came across Play2B earlier via pokerfuse and while looking at their site I was surprised to see Revolution on there as one of the networks and posted the following in this thread (though I think this is more suitable to continue the discussion)

sorry for not getting back to this thread sooner.

and yes, these bots have extremely loose stats(especially when compared to other bots) ...the most striking and notable attribute they share is their willingness to play OOP even in 3bet pots. I believe this is tied to the things I discussed in my last post, for obvious reasons...

anyways I'm guessing I was right because this thread has completely dried up now...I hope you guys used the information I provided to turn around and start exploiting them back.

they are simply destroying the recreational players/regfish and IMO, have pretty much killed off the games at 400nl HU and below on a particular network(one that has stupidly chosen to provide botmakers with all the tools they need to develop sophisticated AI and strategies).

also I wanted to point out that you guys mentioned the strange bug with HHs on this play2b....i'm sure these things are related.

aren't you by default playing 3 bet pots out of position heads up?

yeah obv thats true for HU tables but these bots are also playing 6max tables....sorry if I didn't make that clear. they like to start tons of tables where the action is often HU or 3-4 handed.

anyways they play a ton of pots OOP with striking amount of success....

Has there been no movement on this yet, or have NDA's been signed.

Considering people are still forced to play on play2b, IF anything was going on, it would probably be a nice thing to advertise that.

Yeah, making a big noise and now everyone silent. Its time to get Updates From Players who made this thing start here!

Hey guys, sorry I've been MIA for so long. I have not signed the NDA and I will not. I'd like to say that it's because I think these guys are crooks, I don't want to have any legally binding documents between us and I don't believe any of the money that they said would be returned to my account would ever be withdrawn. While all of these things are true imo, my situation is slightly more complicated and there is zero chance of getting my money back. I don't really feel comfortable saying much more than that.

I'm still feel all but certain that our original assumptions were correct. I hope that some of the others can have their funds returned but even in that case, if you follow the withdrawal threads, no one is really getting money off.

Obviously I'd highly recommend not playing there. Best of luck to everyone who was pushed into this mess.