It doesn't remain fixed though, seals have changed it multiple times to reflect changes in BTC/USD. The stakes played have also decreased on SWC as a result of the value of bitcoin going up. Because we still live in the real world. Even though you can nowadays pay for lots of stuff using bitcoins, the price is always dependant on the current fiat exchange rate.

Am I reading this wrong or is the HU rake just total extortion? 5 chips = ~$4 right? 8x stars rake and doesn't even really have rakeback on top of that?

I remember thinking better of the site (really sorry if I'm misinterpreting this!). HU rake on a site like this should be like .2 chips max... 25x lower than what they currently charge. Until they fix this I probably won't play here again.

AH! This I did not get. Yes, if they change the rake % when the exchange rate changes - yeah not cool on their part.

I don't play cash games, but you can see the rake+cap per table when you press the "info" button at the table.. so currently:

NLHE 0.05/0.10 - Rake: 0.01 every 0.40 - 2.5% (0.50 max)
NLHE 0.10/0.20 - Rake: 0.01 every 0.40 - 2.5% (0.60 max)
NLHE 0.25/0.50 - Rake: 0.01 every 0.40 - 2.5% (1.50 max)
NLHE 2/4 - Rake: 0.01 every 0.40 - 2.5% (5 max)
..
NLHE HU 2/4 - Rake: 0.01 every 0.75 - 1.3% (3 max)
NLHE HU 25/50 - Rake: 0.01 every 0.75 - 1.3% (3 max)
NLHE HU 50/100 - Rake: 0.01 every 0.75 - 1.3% (3 max)
..
LHE 50/100 - Rake: 0.01 every 0.50 - 2% (4 max)
etc.

The percentages are always much lower than Stars, but the cap is quite relevant too obviously.

So NLHE 0.05/0.10, NLHE 0.10/0.20 and NLHE 0.25/0.50 are much cheaper than Stars (both the % and the cap - especially with 5+ players) NLHE 2/4 seems more expensive, especially when you only play with a few people but even with 9 players the cap is higher than Stars. Tables like NLHE HU 50/100 are almost the same I think.

Like I said.. I am not a cash player, so if someone wants to make a better analysis/comparison.. good luck

Yes the rake is 2.5%.
The cap is 3x bb with min .05 to max of 5.

So for 0.05/0.10, 0.10/0.20 and 0.25/0.50 the cap is lower than $ sites.

For .050/1 the cap is 3 which is equivalent to $ sites but the pot needs to be 120 instead of 60 before the rake maxes out so it is still significantly better.

Starting at 1/2 the cap becomes 5 but again the pot needs to be above 120 before the rake goes above 3 so I guess the rake is better overall for the 1/2 games.

So I'm confused.

Has Seals changed the % based on Btc to USD fluctuations or not?

So, Im using a convertor to help get some basic stats and mostly keep up with my wins and losses. Only problem is my wins and losses aren't adding up at all. For a while I thought it was the convertor's problem but I'm just seeing today that seals has missing hands in the original history. I stacked someone and then they left and that hand is nowhere to be found.

While typing this I had another table going and I did not stack the player but they sat out and left and the last hand we played is again missing. Anyone else noticed this? Any help retrieving those hands SWC? The last hand played is a pretty important one when you are playing HU and trying to get your totals. Thanks for any help.

1btc is always equal to 1,000 chips

I don't think that's what he was asking. I think he was asking if they have adjusted the rake in the past based on currency fluctuations and I believe the answer is yes. I could be wrong though.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmaton...2012-earnings/ "The current rake is 2.5% with a cap of ฿0.10 per hand which is slightly less than half of what other poker sites would charge." ฿0.10 = 100 chips.

Does anybody else love getting disconnected in big pots w no disconnect protection? It makes me so happy. I was fortunate enough to have it happen 3 times today

Why are we charged 1 chip for cancelling a payout? What the hell?? This just happened to me twice. Couldn't believe my eyes the first time and had to try again to be sure.

Emailed support and will update with the response.

To cancel an automated payout, to put the money back in play, and to cancel whatever manhours it would take to process, should NOT result in a fee.

Not what I asked.
Correct, that is what I'm asking.
Also not what I asked.

I thought it was a relatively simple question.

Has the rake PERCENTAGE changed at SWC to anyone's knowledge, and when?

On the previous page you can see the current rake is 2.5%.. nakke shows a post from 2012 that also says the rake was 2.5%. Isn't that the answer to your question?

To me it seems they only changed the cap (since a 80 $ cap is bit too high :d)

I did miss the timestamp. It does go against the accusation that SWC has changed rake based on usd/btc exchange rate changes.

Of course, it isn't actually proof - two points in time do not mean it didn't happen somewhere between 2012 and now. But I'm inclined to believe it hasn't unless someone provides actual evidence.

So - that goes back to what I said before - complaining about the rake being more in USD when the rake and betting are both in BTC is stupid. If the rake is more USD, SO WERE THE STAKES.

The piece you're not getting is that the size of the games that run has changed over the last year, and that impacts the relative competitiveness of the rake calculation.

In the summer it was common for Seals NL1000 and NL2000 games to run, which were equivalent to NL$100/$200 USD. The rake was 2.5% with a cap of 10 chips or $1 USD (I think). This was an awesome value relative to all other sites.

In November/December BTC went to $1000 USD and the game size adjusted. Now Seals NL100 and NL200 games run, but NL1000 and 2000 do not. Seals NL100 is about 100 USD. For a brief time, the rake was still 2.5% with a cap of 10 chips or $10 USD. While the % was still industry leading, the cap of $10 USD was way out of line with the industry.

Seals has since decreased their caps to 3, 4 or 5 chips (i.e. $3, $4 or $5 USD per pot). Those caps are still slightly above industry average, especially for HU action.

The request from people here, is that the caps should be reduced to more in line with other sites. Maybe 1 chip max for HU, and 3 chips for full games, which would be about equivalent to PStars caps.

Now there's still the 2.5% deal, which keeps the rake on all small pots lower at seals than all other sites, which is a huge plus. And there's the table starter rakeback, which basically cuts the 3 chip cap in half for HU action. However, the caps are still higher than industry norms.

With BTC price stabilizing around $800 USD and NL100/200 being the largest games the run regularly, a slight cut to the rake cap is necessary to remain the industry's low rake leader.

Stated a clearer way:

Seals used to have a 1% rake cap on their NL$100 USD equivalent games. (10 chips in a 1000 chip game)

Seals now has a 5% rake cap on their NL$100 USD equivalent games. (5 chips in a 100 chip game)

No one else is noticing their last hand missing from HH from each game they play?

Eh. That's a nonsense question though. The only thing that matters is effective rake %. Which is determined by the base % and cap.

You don't understand how it really works. The rake cap is 4 swc chips currently. So at today's exchange that equates to $3.20 cap per hand. If btc were to double then the rake cap would go to $6.20 per hand.

So people who are playing 10-20 today would see a cap of $3.20. When btc doubles then the same people would most likely drop down to 5-10 but see a rake cap of $6.20. These people are playing for the same "real dollars" but now see an increase in rake just due to the price fluctuation in btc.

Seals also recognizes this as they had a previous rake cap of 8 swc chips.

I think most of your explanation was great, but for HU in particular you are drastically underestimating how much seals rake sucks.

Stars HU rake cap is $0.50 up to NL5K!

NL200 equivilent seals HU rake cap is ~$2. This is not slightly higher, it is more than 4x and at higher stakes its even worse.

There is no table starter rb for HU tables.

Basically anyone playing HU above NL50 on seals is getting absolutely crushed.

Support made things right about the missing chips after cancelled withdraws.

Yeah, I haven't played the HU tables on SWC.

The rake slightly sucks playing HU on 6-max and FR tables.

It sounds pretty atrocious at actual HU tables.

next time include rake somewhere in there seals has lowered rake previously but prob not enough hu

And the chips you're playing with are also double in value.

Then they're playing stupidly. If you're playing in btc and your bankroll management is in btc then your stakes should be based on bankroll in btc. If the player moves because the exchange rate changed but the table stakes (btc) and rake (btc) didn't change, the player is hanging themselves.

And I said before - if SWC is changing percentage or cap based on exchange rate, well - that's one thing. But you just described players who don't understand finance hanging themselves on the rake because THEY moved games when the games were exactly the same as before.