For anyone who doesn't know, out 'smooth' structure tournaments have blinds that increase every minute by a small amount.

I don't think a 25 chip satellite to the 2000 entry Big BTC every hour will work, but I am going to set up some 5 and 10 player SNG satellites. They won't enforce actually playing the Big BTC, they'll just have one 2000 chip prize.

Not big on the rebuy idea but agree with extending the time between blinds - you aren't really given time to build a stack as they go up so quick, for the most part it is sit and wait for a strong hand and get the chips in.

Can I throw another idea out? How about some double or nothing tables 9 max and 6 max.

I love the 10 am game daily. Is there a way to get a 1pm and a 3pm and 5pm?

I would also love a good daily Deepstack tourney as well with 5000 starting chips and 8 to 10 minute blinds. Maybe a 500-1000 chip buyin during the week? Especially if you offer those sitngos to bring the MTT roll up.

Bet online has a solid run free roll that allows rebuys up until the first break. The payout structure then goes as a regular tourney would. It allows for free roll players get a feel of the game longer and gets the regs in to play as well to "sweeten" the pot.

Go to Bet online and look at the free roll structure. It allows the purpose of players to play without coins AND it gives the money players opportunity to play as well and make it worth their time. I personally like that free roll on Bet online.

betonline never pays out players though so avoid.

who own seals with clubs = brian micon

how much is micon in debt = 200,000+ in loan to vegas pros

why did micon start seal with clubs= because software is 500 dollar and he need money because he run potent website worth 1 million at 1 time to ground

is security on seal with club = micon say he security on site: a guy who lose poker for 10 year police your poker

wild wild west= how micon describe play because ****ty security

can u have 10 acc on seal with clun= yes; as many acount as u want;no email need

do people cheat= all the time

is my money safe on seal with club= no; broke ex loser poker player 200,000plus in debt own site. he in debt more than that if u include all debt

micon break up with best frind because frind would not give him 10000 to grind slot machine for jackpot


now dutch loyd and crue involve


STAY AWAY or you get ****

I would of loved to see this go down if true. hilarious

I would love to play a deepstack MTT for bitcoins as long as the buyin was big enough. If they could get enough players to play a 10 bitcoin buyin with a topheavy payout that could be enough action to get players to log on at least once per week.

My bits are in my wallet. Don't leave money on the site. Bankroll=under my mattress. If there are cheats on the site, I must have not found them yet or I would gets stacked by now.

Show the proof. Quit trolling

Played seals for the first time today. Absolutely loved it. Fast deposits and withdrawals are incredible. With that being said, if anyone has any bitcoins to sell shoot me a PM

It takes 2 seconds to deposit and my withdrawals are approved and delivered within hours. I can deposit my buyins when I'm ready to play and withdraw it within hours. My risk is small, unlike regular sites where I'm forced to keep a ton of buyins online because it's such a pain and costly to deposit and withdraw. Welcome to the future of online poker sir.

The future of online poker likely involves legislation in the US. You still plan on playing in a bitcoin based universe then?

Bitcoins represent an interesting option for US facing sites only for now, and they come with a lot of systemic risk that probably make it not worth the venture for places like Merge, but to suggest bitcoins represent the "future" is pretty amusing since th e"future" exists now on Stars/Tilt for the rest of the world in more established currencies.

The future of the bitcoin/poker universe may develop, because this site has some extreme limitations to that growth (no real game security which would become an issue if it ever got bigger).

LOL at you thinking there will be any poker legislation, let alone anything sensible. If this bill passes it will basically shut out most people in the country from playing. It doesn't have any chance at passing anyway. BTC poker will be our only choice for a long time.

Except for the rooms like Intertops and networks like Winning where players get paid in a timely manner for reasonable costs and the player pools are significantly larger (without the cowboy feel).

I just find it interesting that you believe Bitcoins (which are a fraction of a percent of the US facing market) represent anything yet, other than a tiny trial room with some severe limitations.

I don't think bitcoin poker represents anything right now, but it will. Unless we get solid regulation, which I don't believe we have any chance at getting, there will be a lot more Americans playing at BTC sites than regular sites in less than 2 years. The use of digital currency is going to explode over the next 2-5 years.

Unless the established US facing networks (Revolution/Merge/Winning/Bovada) start taking Bitcoins (which is extremely unlikely) there is zero chance that bitcoins will represent anything other than a fringe part of th eUS facing marketplace.

Just reading this thread is a good example why - anyone jumping into the bitcoin universe without doing some research will likely get destroyed by those who are familiar with it.

The people pitching bitcoins are the sharks wanting the donks to enter their universe (fair enough), but the odds that the casual players and donks will venture into both a shark invested bitcoin universe to play in a shark infested poker universe (if it grows and somehow drops all the collusion/security issues) are very minimal.

I do not doubt the bit-coin-a-holics truly appreciate the bitcoin Kool-Aid, but trying to get it to grow in the masses is a hudle that is not going to happen.

You guys probably think 2+2 represents a significant portion of the US marketplace - it does not. Bitcoins are a fringe of th e2+2 universe. Math is not ideal for now, but best of luck in the future. Time will tell.

All the best.

What's with the terms dude? I understand what you are trying to do by calling us bit-coin-a-holics, but you are just making yourself sound foolish.

I is drunk on Bitcoin Kool-Aid and couldn’t care less if those zealously not interested in Bitcoin are zealously not interested in Bitcoin, LOL.

I’m in it (Bitcoins in general) for the long haul and am trying to accumulate as many Bitcoins as I can from speculation in the (volatile) Bitcoin trading market while they can be got for relatively cheap. For me, Bitcoin speculation is fun and Bitcoin poker is a fun way for me to cost average. I don’t think anyone honestly thinks Bitcoin poker is going to overtake mainstream fiat online poker anytime in the immediate future. There just aren’t enough people that know about Bitcoin - Bitcoin itself, not just Bitcoin poker - right now, like less than 1% of the world’s population is my guess, much less understand its advantages and properties.

Just as in the early days of exploration, there weren’t very many people who saw that the earth could be round much less the advantages that could possibly be if proven true. Just like there weren’t very many people in the early 70’s who thought this thing called the “internet” that some nerds were working on could be something worthwhile or profitable.

Scoffers gonna scoff. People who try to make things happen gonna sometimes make things happen.

If it turns out that Bitcoin in general ends up failing and all the coins I’ve accumulated thus far end up being worth nothing, then oh well. I’m out a few thousand dollars that I would have spent on something else interesting and fun. No big deal. However, if Bitcoin and the Bitcoin economy do hit and become something - whether it be in 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years or 50 years from now - then I wont millions. rubbingtitties.gif

Peace

The best part is ending the trolling with "All the best".

Part of the bitcoin culture is the gamble on the speculative bitcoin currency itself, and that fluctuation represents too great a risk for larger sites to bother with, and as well it provides a very steep barrier of entry to people who are casual and just want to play poker. They will worry they get destroyed by not understanding how to buy and sell bitcoins properly (essentially bitcoin rake).

Look at the typical bitcoin/poker hybrid:


Nothing wrong with degens degenning it up on bitcoins - that is as good as anything, and if bitcoins provide sharp, savvy users to make money off of the weaker/casual ones - again that is perfectly valid.

The problem is trying to fit this bitcoin world into ones where it is not a perfect fit, and large US facing poker networks/casino/sports books have no interest in taking wagers in bitcoins, nor will they in the near future.

Sites like that big blogging site working with bitcoins make sense as they allow people who would not get paid by any conventional means to get paid in an anonymous manner (bloggers in China or North Korea for instance), and whether those people win or lose in the bitcoin variance is offset by the fact they are actually getting paid.

If some of you guys are making good money working the bitcoin universe then good for you, it is simply a variation of any arbitrage/bonus whoring style system. I still have yet to see how this model would benefit any of the larger facing sites, or a way that it can grow beyond some word of mouth among bit-a-holics. A site with better security than this one will help, and perhaps if it somehow grows they can start putting in some better features.

Certainly a small segment can exist for this, but those believing this is the future of online poker are definitely drinking kool-aid of some variety.


If that makes you moody try this:

May the bitcoins be ever in your favor.

so far you've made zero valid criticisms of bitcoin.

i dont see how anybody can be against a site OFFERING an additional deposit/withdraw method which is cheaper, safer, and faster than anything they currently have.

Bitcoins are just the latest virtual economy that have come in many shapes and sizes over the years. As one looks at the bitcoin server farms doing their thing it is not hard to work out that the margins for that activity will drop as more people get into it and do it more effectively, much like it did for the "gold farmers" in those nerd games that are popular.

This will also hurt the casual bitcoin donk (like many of the posters in this thread relative to the hard core freaks) who has no idea that he is vastly overmatched in the bitcoin universe.

I have zero problems with this type of marketplace, I ran a large team of casino bonus whores years ago when that was a system that was very breakable for money as well.

While I do believe many who are into the bitcoin game (casually) will get burned by it, while those who made a ton will know when to get out, I personally do not care who wins or loses in that way.

Bitcoins as a currency for large US facing poker sites is folly, because by it's nature it is not stable and as more and more hard core bitcoin farmers take over that system you will see the impact to the casual user. Why would any network like Merge want to be a part of that chaos?


It is not safer for the site, they become big bitcoin players/gamblers by accepting it as a form of currency. You buy in for a lot of bitcoins. You buddy buys in for a lot of US dollars. Depending on how the bitcoin market changes one of you loses to the other and then withdraws.

This is the simplest of scams the sites will face, and in a world where you see youtube videos of server farms grinding $100+ a day at bitcoins I can assure you that better scams that are not as easy to catch will develop as well, with the poker sites caught in the middle.


The Clubbing Seals site is fine since it is only in the bitcoin universe so other than donks losing at poker and losing at bitcoin gambling there is no way to exploit the system to arbitrage changes in currency fluctuation, so unless sites like Merge develop bitcoin only tables and bitcoin only MTTs (that really seem practical?) why would they bother taking all of that risk?


I know you guys love bitcoins, and I am sure the guys who work the system hard love that guys like you love bitcoins. Why don't you or someone else break down the numbers as to how and why a bitcoin product for a network like Winning and Merge will make them money, and realize that saying "it will make you withdraw faster" is not exactly a great answer to that question.

All the bitcoin best.

It's not like that at all, a casual bitcoiner doesn't mine.

I'm an intense bitcoiner and I don't mine because selling computer cycles isn't my specialty.

Some people will get involved with mining who shouldn't for lack of business sense or required skill, but that's true of virtually every type of business in existence.

God knows what they pay processors now both directly and in the risk of processors failing or quitting. BitPay will handle everything (BTC to bank dollars instantly, no exchange risk) for 1%. BitPay is legit, good enough to be contracted by WordPress.com.

To pay cashouts they can just take whatever the dollar amount of the cashout is, buy coins and send them, that's free to them and zero risk. Maybe they can even outsource that if they really don't want to touch the coins for a second.

Any time there is a way to make money one can be sure that people will swarm to that opportunity and compete at it hard until the margins and opportunities drop. This is part of the human condition, and usually many who get into the game late or lack the expertise pay for their inexperience or greed.

Tell me this as an "intense bitcoiner" - how well do you think casual bitcoiners will fare in the bitcoin marketplace compared to you and those that are even more intense than you? Do you think the intensity will increase over time?

These are the forces that eventually put a lot of strain on a system like bitcoins, and make it hard for non-bitcoiners to jump into the bitcoin arena just so they can play poker (especially when other options in currencies they understand exist).



This is extremely simplistic. A few questions:

- In your model do the sites accept bitcoins as a deposit mechanism?

- What will extreme bitcoiners say when the sites use an inefficient means of exchanging, and the dollars are not as much as the bitcoiner expected?

- What will you do to prevent market manipulation, and using the poker sites simply as a means of moving money to alter the exchange rates by creating a huge glut of demand or supply for bitcoins, or arbitraging the sites and their inefficient exchange rates?


- What if the bitcoin market collapses? The player balances in bitcoins or dollars? What then?


Wordpress is a completely different animal as they do not hold millions of dollars, but rather they can act as a payment processor from person A to person B in pure bitcoins without inventoring any money, nor needing to exchange any money, so bitcoins is a viable option for them (as long as bitcoins continue to exist).

Same thing with a tiny, insecure poker site that is pure bitcoins like Clubbing Seals.

Moving this to Merge/Bovada/Winning/Revolution is a whole other story.