Reliability concern about Enet Cristal Poker and bully representative approach
09-05-2013
, 02:15 PM
Hi all,
I'm writing about something weird that has been going since last night.
Whole discussion has gone semi-public, a closed FB group of Turkish players.
A player regularly playing on Cristal poker has added this picture to the group with a title such as "Oh Cristal, F*** me":
Then we made fun of it, some did not believe and some believed, etc. Actually since the player was a respected member of our community, most believed and discussed what to do about it. Then we asked for the HH from the Cristal Poker client, and if possible, from the Holdem Manager logs which could prove authenticity. Then he posted this photo, showing the exact same hand from the client HH:
The next today, while we were planning to contact support and open this to discussion on 2p2, the Cristal Room official FB account applied for being accepted to our group. We accepted and the first thing he did was to comment on the SS:
"Cristal Room Dear user, first we would like to write this:
"
"Cristal Room And secondly we will show you the real hand:
"
OK, here, the style he approached was very amateur and unacceptable, but there was more of that: The "real" HH he submitted had two button players! This has raised even more questions about the client's and therefore the room/network. Then a long discussion has started between the players in the group and the cristal representative. He has continued to bully all the players.
I'll write all the discussion word by word at the end of the post. But to summarize:
- He has claimed that HM2 caused errors in visualization of the hand and that caused the error. Or it may be photoshopped. Then the original poster has made a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=yCpx9_8dVPQ
- Then the representative has started claiming that HM2 changed the visualization of the HH as well.
- As for the two Button players in the "real" hand history, he has said this was a back office bug and had nothing to do. Questions about how he could be this sure, if they had known bugs in their software related to simple things as who the button player is remained unanswered.
- He has also claimed that lots of problems have had this problem due to use of HM2. (Is that true?)
- And he has claimed that use of HM2 was strictly forbidden, and this player could be banned at any moment, based on their terms of use Article 4.3: "All actions on the site must be personally taken by the player whose account is being used. The use of automation, "bots", robots, or artificial intelligence systems or programs that act for a player are strictly prohibited." When we reminded that HM2 is not an artificial intelligence acting on behalf of the player, he replied saying "then I'm hereby adding that HM2 cannot be used, do you have anything to do about it?" When we reminded their tens of promotional e-mails clearly saying "our client now supports HUD!", we were ignored.
-----------
So, even if we presume this was a trolling by a group member, such inconsistencies in the explanations have caused suspicion.
So, to ask for supportive purposes again, has really so many players had these "visualization" problems? And can you trust a poker room who admits their back office software cannot show who the button is on a given hand? Also, is it acceptable for them to potentially ban a player for using HM2 after advertising their software as HUD compatible? Also, can HM2 really change the hand history saved by a poker client?
For those curious ones among you, the profile discussing with us was: https://www.facebook.com/www.cristalpoker
Thanks for anyone who comments
----------------------------
And the whole discussion in the group is as pasted below, you may read if you feel the need to:
Dear user, first we would like to write this:
(bull**** detected meme)
Cristal Room And secondly we will show you the real hand:
(the acclaimed real hand)
Çağdaş Mandalı üsluba gel, şu kurumsallığa, şu profesyonelliğe bak be... gözlerim yaşardı yeminle...
Onur Alsancak Then what kind of bug is that?
Cristal Room The player Barkn had in his hand 9♣2♣ not 10 9 ♦
Çağdaş Mandalı and why do two players sit on the button in the real hand?
Cristal Room you maybe had a visualisation problem caused by HM and pokerplaner which you use
Cristal Room but what is 100% tru is this:
The player Barkn had in his hand 9♣2♣ not 10 9 ♦
Cristal Room as i know this kind of erros happen and in other networks with the players which use HM
Cristal Room so CristalPoker/ Enet Network has nothing in common with this error
Çağdaş Mandalı anything about the "two button players" problem in the real hand (officially submitted)?
Cristal Room Çağdaş Mandalı this are not the button, should be the sb and bb, but this is a bug in our back office which not regard this error
Mehmet Ali Pekcan so you are saying pokerplanner is spoiled the cards. what about 2nd picture? you can clearly see that is your own room's hand history visualization. it also shows 9d10d
Çağdaş Mandalı so you cant even show a proper real hand and officially reply to your players saying "bull****". you're saying here that you cant see a HH properly even at the back office, so how can you be sure that this thing you show is the real hand?
Cristal Room try to search in the net fotos like these and you will find alot, and all are caused by HM or pokerplaner, in the player hh screenshto there is also visualisation problem nad can be also caused by HM or pokerplaner.
Cristal Room IF ANYONE HAVE DOUBT ABOUT THAT THE REAL SCRRENSHOT OF THE HAND FROM OUR BACK OFFICE - CAN CONTACT SKYPE ID: SUPPORT.CRISTALPOKER.V AND WE WILL MAKE FOR YOU A SHARE SCREEN
Cristal Room MORE COMENTS ABOUT ISSUES WHICH CAUSED OTHER SOFTWARES LIKE HM OR POKERPLANER - I DON'T WANT TO COMENT
Çağdaş Mandalı honestly speaking, even though they are hud related problems or even photoshopped, its counter evidence is much more suspicious.
Çağdaş Mandalı i think the discussion should go on on 2p2, where people might have lots of similar problems where holdem manager changes the hand history files
Cristal Room what is suspicious in what i wrote Çağdaş Mandalı ??
Cristal Room contact the skype id and we will call you in skype and make share screeen, and will show you the real hand
Mehmet Ali Pekcan it can be related to hud, but still that doesn't make any sense that hand history is also altered. hand history belongs to your software, and it has to show real hand not altered one.
Cristal Room seems that HM or pokerplaner also can altere the player hh, or even can be photoshop... but in our hh the hand is like you can see in the image which a posted
Çağdaş Mandalı another question, in the real hand you have submitted, who is the button, who is the sb and who is the bb?
Mehmet Ali Pekcan it seems numbers are also altered, its 10/20 level, but your picture shows 030 for both sb and bb. i think you guys have big problem with software.
Cristal Room the big problem with the software have HM, not we, i repeat again, in the image which i posted you can see the real hand and the visualisation issues which you have here (or can be also photoshop) are NOT OUR PROBLEM, are the problem of HM, in alot of networks happen the same thing with the players which use HM.
sb = refresh
bb = d'bell
this is the real informatuon, but as you can see in your scrrenshots, the sb and bb are player wolf86 and branza, and at the tables...so there is completlly not correct information.
Moreover, the use of Hm in our network is strictly prohibited, please read the terms and conditions point 4.3 : All actions on the site must be personally taken by the player whose account is being used. The use of automation, "bots", robots, or artificial intelligence systems or programs that act for a player are strictly prohibited.
So, this can be also a reason of bann of this player.
Çağdaş Mandalı Do you really think hm is a program acting automatically on behalf of the player? Please study better before bullying players
Cristal Room dear Çağdaş Mandalı with "or artificial intelligence systems or programs that act for a player" mean also HM, but specially for u - we can add "HM", so in this way for sure will be clear for u.
I'm writing about something weird that has been going since last night.
Whole discussion has gone semi-public, a closed FB group of Turkish players.
A player regularly playing on Cristal poker has added this picture to the group with a title such as "Oh Cristal, F*** me":
Then we made fun of it, some did not believe and some believed, etc. Actually since the player was a respected member of our community, most believed and discussed what to do about it. Then we asked for the HH from the Cristal Poker client, and if possible, from the Holdem Manager logs which could prove authenticity. Then he posted this photo, showing the exact same hand from the client HH:
The next today, while we were planning to contact support and open this to discussion on 2p2, the Cristal Room official FB account applied for being accepted to our group. We accepted and the first thing he did was to comment on the SS:
"Cristal Room Dear user, first we would like to write this:
"Cristal Room And secondly we will show you the real hand:
OK, here, the style he approached was very amateur and unacceptable, but there was more of that: The "real" HH he submitted had two button players! This has raised even more questions about the client's and therefore the room/network. Then a long discussion has started between the players in the group and the cristal representative. He has continued to bully all the players.
I'll write all the discussion word by word at the end of the post. But to summarize:
- He has claimed that HM2 caused errors in visualization of the hand and that caused the error. Or it may be photoshopped. Then the original poster has made a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=yCpx9_8dVPQ
- Then the representative has started claiming that HM2 changed the visualization of the HH as well.
- As for the two Button players in the "real" hand history, he has said this was a back office bug and had nothing to do. Questions about how he could be this sure, if they had known bugs in their software related to simple things as who the button player is remained unanswered.
- He has also claimed that lots of problems have had this problem due to use of HM2. (Is that true?)
- And he has claimed that use of HM2 was strictly forbidden, and this player could be banned at any moment, based on their terms of use Article 4.3: "All actions on the site must be personally taken by the player whose account is being used. The use of automation, "bots", robots, or artificial intelligence systems or programs that act for a player are strictly prohibited." When we reminded that HM2 is not an artificial intelligence acting on behalf of the player, he replied saying "then I'm hereby adding that HM2 cannot be used, do you have anything to do about it?" When we reminded their tens of promotional e-mails clearly saying "our client now supports HUD!", we were ignored.
-----------
So, even if we presume this was a trolling by a group member, such inconsistencies in the explanations have caused suspicion.
So, to ask for supportive purposes again, has really so many players had these "visualization" problems? And can you trust a poker room who admits their back office software cannot show who the button is on a given hand? Also, is it acceptable for them to potentially ban a player for using HM2 after advertising their software as HUD compatible? Also, can HM2 really change the hand history saved by a poker client?
For those curious ones among you, the profile discussing with us was: https://www.facebook.com/www.cristalpoker
Thanks for anyone who comments
----------------------------
And the whole discussion in the group is as pasted below, you may read if you feel the need to:
Dear user, first we would like to write this:
(bull**** detected meme)
Cristal Room And secondly we will show you the real hand:
(the acclaimed real hand)
Çağdaş Mandalı üsluba gel, şu kurumsallığa, şu profesyonelliğe bak be... gözlerim yaşardı yeminle...
Onur Alsancak Then what kind of bug is that?
Cristal Room The player Barkn had in his hand 9♣2♣ not 10 9 ♦
Çağdaş Mandalı and why do two players sit on the button in the real hand?
Cristal Room you maybe had a visualisation problem caused by HM and pokerplaner which you use
Cristal Room but what is 100% tru is this:
The player Barkn had in his hand 9♣2♣ not 10 9 ♦
Cristal Room as i know this kind of erros happen and in other networks with the players which use HM
Cristal Room so CristalPoker/ Enet Network has nothing in common with this error
Çağdaş Mandalı anything about the "two button players" problem in the real hand (officially submitted)?
Cristal Room Çağdaş Mandalı this are not the button, should be the sb and bb, but this is a bug in our back office which not regard this error
Mehmet Ali Pekcan so you are saying pokerplanner is spoiled the cards. what about 2nd picture? you can clearly see that is your own room's hand history visualization. it also shows 9d10d
Çağdaş Mandalı so you cant even show a proper real hand and officially reply to your players saying "bull****". you're saying here that you cant see a HH properly even at the back office, so how can you be sure that this thing you show is the real hand?
Cristal Room try to search in the net fotos like these and you will find alot, and all are caused by HM or pokerplaner, in the player hh screenshto there is also visualisation problem nad can be also caused by HM or pokerplaner.
Cristal Room IF ANYONE HAVE DOUBT ABOUT THAT THE REAL SCRRENSHOT OF THE HAND FROM OUR BACK OFFICE - CAN CONTACT SKYPE ID: SUPPORT.CRISTALPOKER.V AND WE WILL MAKE FOR YOU A SHARE SCREEN
Cristal Room MORE COMENTS ABOUT ISSUES WHICH CAUSED OTHER SOFTWARES LIKE HM OR POKERPLANER - I DON'T WANT TO COMENT
Çağdaş Mandalı honestly speaking, even though they are hud related problems or even photoshopped, its counter evidence is much more suspicious.
Çağdaş Mandalı i think the discussion should go on on 2p2, where people might have lots of similar problems where holdem manager changes the hand history files
Cristal Room what is suspicious in what i wrote Çağdaş Mandalı ??
Cristal Room contact the skype id and we will call you in skype and make share screeen, and will show you the real hand
Mehmet Ali Pekcan it can be related to hud, but still that doesn't make any sense that hand history is also altered. hand history belongs to your software, and it has to show real hand not altered one.
Cristal Room seems that HM or pokerplaner also can altere the player hh, or even can be photoshop... but in our hh the hand is like you can see in the image which a posted
Çağdaş Mandalı another question, in the real hand you have submitted, who is the button, who is the sb and who is the bb?
Mehmet Ali Pekcan it seems numbers are also altered, its 10/20 level, but your picture shows 030 for both sb and bb. i think you guys have big problem with software.
Cristal Room the big problem with the software have HM, not we, i repeat again, in the image which i posted you can see the real hand and the visualisation issues which you have here (or can be also photoshop) are NOT OUR PROBLEM, are the problem of HM, in alot of networks happen the same thing with the players which use HM.
sb = refresh
bb = d'bell
this is the real informatuon, but as you can see in your scrrenshots, the sb and bb are player wolf86 and branza, and at the tables...so there is completlly not correct information.
Moreover, the use of Hm in our network is strictly prohibited, please read the terms and conditions point 4.3 : All actions on the site must be personally taken by the player whose account is being used. The use of automation, "bots", robots, or artificial intelligence systems or programs that act for a player are strictly prohibited.
So, this can be also a reason of bann of this player.
Çağdaş Mandalı Do you really think hm is a program acting automatically on behalf of the player? Please study better before bullying players
Cristal Room dear Çağdaş Mandalı with "or artificial intelligence systems or programs that act for a player" mean also HM, but specially for u - we can add "HM", so in this way for sure will be clear for u.
