Kinda rushed these since I gotta go play.



Hopefully others join in and make some cool ones. If I had more time I would make something animated but don't really have any time.


Thanks for those who support this.

If the sites implemented a seat charge, the rake ridiculousity would be much more transparent. Instead of $5 for half an hour in a live game, the sites would have to charge $10 to maintain current rakes, justifying it because more hands are dealt and ignoring their favorable cost structure.

Limit is just so ridiculous:

$10/$20 - BB calls an open, folds flop, and $2 is raked out of a $45 pot. At $5/$10 its $1 raked out of a $22 pot.

There are just not enough fish to support this rake structure of $100/hr+ getting raked out of 6max games. And for some bizarre reason, 6max gets less rakeback than full ring!

Good job ^^ Definitely going to be using this on Stars:


Love them. Nice work

Maybe you'd like to look at this thread about a rake-free community run Poker room:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...munity-938389/
Or:
http://poker.bitcoinvegas.com/wiki

Post a screenshot once you got it going on stars. Curious if these 80x80 ones will fit. They seem really small.

Might need to make new ones for stars. Don't forget one to use on the forums also :P

Nice name btw.


Please all who support this repost these avatars on other forums if you would be so kinda(other than 2+2). Please use the avatars and suggest your friends do the same. Also, please rate the thread ***** stars. ty

Posted this in the 2011 VIP Changes thread but it applies more ITT:

They need to lower rake to re-inflate winrates in the micro and small stakes where max rake vs pot size is atrocious. Am I the only one that finds it a bit insane that a $400 pot at 200NL rakes $3 while a $50 pot at 25NL rakes $2.50? That's 0.75% of the 200NL pot vs 5% of the 25NL pot. Effectively 667% more rake. Imagine how good the mid and high stakes games would be if some of that money was better equipped to move up. Imagine how much the small stakes Supernova grinder could make if he wasn't giving 1/2 of his winnings to the site. Imagine how much longer the micro stakes slightly losing player could play if rake didn't eat up his entire deposit in 1k hands and how much more likely he would be to deposit in the future.

5% with a max $ rake system applied across the board only makes sense if you're hitting the max a lot. Setting the max to bb as a primary to lower micro and small stakes rake with a secondary $ max to prevent rake from going up in mid and high stakes is a lot more logical.

I'd estimate 4bb and $5 limits would be much more fair all around, with the rake : pot ratio becoming more proportional across stakes and with the only ones that would see an unfavorable rake change being 200NL going from $3 to $5 max but this would drastically be compensated by game quality improvement. Max rake of $1 at 25NL for 2% of a $50 pot is much more reasonable than the scenario in the first paragraph. I would be more than happy at keeping 5% with a 4bb and $5 max. This would create the desired situations where micro pots would often reach their max.

I hope everyone can see how the sites are scuttling their own "attempts" at bringing us new fish by raping the micro games where most fish start out. That money will never see small or mid stakes.

Very good points. Thanks for joining the cause.


We need more xmas avatars. Animated avatars would be really baller too.



Does anyone visit any other poker forums that could repost the main points about rake and also the avatars?

http://www.pocketfives.com/
http://www.flopturnriver.com/
http://www.cardschat.com/

Don't think the pokerrooms will lower the rake any time soon. They get enough players who want to play anyway. A complete player strike might work, but is obviously unachieveble.
Nice avatars anyway.

why?

I get how it would be nice for the player btw

no it will end up mainly with the poker sites. I don't see the benefit to them of your proposals and they are the ones you have to convince to give up large sums of money.

Not hating, nicely written post imo and OPs avatars are a nice touch.

fight the good fight!

rake needs to be lowered...

I don't think the sites are concerned about the long term, just year by year. They want to make as much money as they can while they can. What will it matter to PokerStars if in 20 years they are the size of Cake poker now? It's a private company and the owners will have banked untold millions from raking the game to death right now. 20 years from now they'll be living on private islands making income off the interest payments from their massive bank accounts.

The following is why the rake remains where it is:

Thank you both.

*avatar changed*

The rake is high, yes, but don't forget one thing.

All those stories your reading about in the USA about the Feds seizing the funds of payment processors. That is "your" money they are seizing. The only reason you haven't lost it is because the poker sites decided to absorb the losses themselves and still pay you.

Some of these seizures have been in the millions of dollars, and they are getting more numerous.

That money comes from somewhere (rake). Just be happy the withdrawals you have made haven't been seized by the government because if they were, there is absolutely nothing you could do about it.

I am not from the United States. If that is true then well done for the sites that do that etc. But still I don't think you comprehend just how big the rake is.

<---

JH1- great post about the micros. You make a compelling argument for how changing the rake structure at the the lowest levels would boost the whole economy, I hope it doesn't fall on deaf ears.

Why?

Cause the rake is too damned high!




OT

+1

Love this avatar, ty.

Updated on PS as well.