i agree, but i think the letter should be more thought through. would be interesting to see this go ahead.

There are plenty of sites out there with far higher rakeback, like World Poker Exchange (65% + 10% rb deposit bonus)
why don't you deposit there?
because there are no players. Theres no advertising, and no rewards program. Fish don't go there. nobody goes there.
instead of focusing on companies that will not change, why don't you try to support some smaller sites that give higher rakeback?

yes I agree, this was just a rough draft without giving it too much thought. If there's support for the idea I'm sure we can put our heads together for a really awesome petition that will make them sit up and take notice.

No support for this idea with so many unhappy people in this thread? Come on guys lets at least let the sites know we are dissatisfied.

Some great points ... rake is too high.

However when i compare it to traveling to casino to play live and being charged time rake at $6 30 mins at 1/2 nl or 2/4 nl and playing maybe 12-15 hands for that well that sucks more. At that rate i would be (as i dont entertain it anymore) paying $400-$500 rake for 1000 hands.. ok get comps but they do not compare rake back or vpp program plus you factor in travel etc ...my thoughts .

TOTALLY AGREE THO ONLINE RAKE TOo HIGH

I love the email idea, I think we should make a final copy and all send it the same day. I have also changed my ps avatar to the rake avatar and recommend everybody else do the same

Live is not an entirely reasonable comparison for many reasons. One is that the play quality at live makes 20+bb/100 earn rates completely realistic. The rake has always been obscene in online poker but the reason people weren't complaining about the rake back in 2005 wasn't because it was fair back then but because the games were soft back then and rake wasn't disproportionately killing off the games. Now it is. Edges are smaller than ever and rake is larger than ever. Bonuses and promotions are also less frequent and more meager than ever - Stars recent holiday promotion basically was a lottery to get a chance at a bonus of 'up to' $50. I mean that's nothing short of pathetic.

At live you also are paying for much more. You get a live dealer, space in a casino, often free drinks and even food, security who will walk you to your car, etc. Online you basically get a RNG spitting out numbers and not a whole heck of alot else. Sites like World of Warcraft offer infinitely more (you can even play online poker inside of the World of Warcraft universe!) for $15/month.

I don't think we should mix live and online here at all. Its the same game, but at the same they couldn't be more different.

Rapala,

It is my opinion that sites already realize that decreasing the rake would increase their profits in the long run. Its not exactly difficult to see the games dying and realize rake is a large factor in that. But from the sites perspective, their long run is extremely uncertain. Stars/FTP, for instance, were nearly locked out of the US market for years to come last month. California, Florida, New Jersey, etc are all in the process of passing intrastate poker legislation that will again likely result in Star/FTP being given the boot. California/Florida alone make up 1/6th of the US population and probably an even larger proportion of US online poker players. I haven't even mentioned the DoJ and their increasing enforcement efforts with seizures and the like.

The purpose of educating players about how obscene the rake is is to make sure when the time comes that a competitor comes about with a lower rake, that they get the response they deserve. And similarly when more competitors do come about that players realize how much the current sites are screwing us over simply because they can. Right now swapping sites simply isn't possible for many players. But when it is and it comes time to decide between Stars/FTP or Bellagio.com, I know where I'll be playing.

Best post I've seen in a long time OT, laughed my ass off.

thats really fing awesome bro

gj gogogogogogogoog

awesome

Would a site in the US that charged 0 rake be "legal"? I am curious. Since most laws consider it illegal if the house gets a cut. So by not taking a cut I would think it would be "legal" but I could just be a wishful thinking moran. I say legal with quotes since it is not really illegal its just that the money transfers are.

FWIW home poker games where no rake is charged are 100% legal in WA state, the state with the worst law against online poker.

Pretty sure there's other states that allow the same.

Exactly! It is the same here in Texas. Would a poker site that does not rake the games be legal? The only difference I could see would be the interstate verses intrastate aspect.

If it really was, the implications would be hudge.. almost too good to be true, so it probably isn't.

bump

RAKE IS TO HIGH

get rid of the rake. make poker sites advertisement-based.

DOWN WITH COMMERCE

1. Remove rake
2. Put Coors Light/other beers/other products/etc in center of tables and in lobby instead of pokerstars logo.
3. Profit.

+1. I'd personally like to see GoDaddy with ridic upselling than Coors but to each his own. Or the Coca-Cola Sunday Million.

well, that's why the kartludox project is interesting
if the software is free and is updated by the players themselves then that's one thing that a site doesn't have to pay for

Perfect, because those big corporations will just pay whatever you ask, amirite?

The Sunday Million's like a Super Bowl that happens every week, obv they'll pay whatever they ask. :-P

Beer adverts on felt ftw, 2 birds with 1 stone imo

I can;t see rake free ever happening, but getting rake reduced is something all regular players should be pushing for. Getting sites to listen is going to be extremely difficult though.

Some nice ideas ITT, definately going to support whatever push we make.