youre doing gods work. keep up the great attitude; this forum breeds nay sayers. wish you the best of luck.

Everyone arguing the need for fish etc..."Fish" is a relative term. There are and will always be fish in any given game, DUCY?

I don't get the negativity. I do understand giving feedback. Your preparation in this has blown my mind, and to think this is only the beginning. LOL at everyone already talking about 200k players and issues that major sites face.

There will be good people out there that will make this happen. Snoooowball affect will ensue

genjix, you're to be commended and you are my new official hero. I wrote you a PM, I mean it all.

Also, shame on you P5's.

.

OMG this. Wish I could say things as simple and powerful without all the extra filler.

allow advertising on the tables, on the main client etc.

target facebook poker players


Get it up and running i'll buy a few hundred bitcoins? and take a test drive!


Also about the fish thing. You can put any 9 people in the world at a rake free poker table and there will always be 8 fish.

Advertising is just not uncool. However lots of people today suggested fantastic ideas like:
- Paying for your own named table.
- Donators getting stripes on their avatar/highlighted nickname.
- Pay for private password-locked tables.
- Merchandising.
...

Don't Facebook's TOS forbid such a thing? However there is plans for a browser based client (should be easy to make too).

pokerstars and full tilt have facebook pages and stars offers facebook poker league freerolls as well as small $ facebook poker league tourneys.


I would just create a facebook page then request to add all of ftp's and stars friends

When this will be up? ;]

A site called WSEX did this. They even had an advertising budget and employees and a name. The issue is there weren't any fish.

You need to advertise to keep a poker economy running, there are just not enough losing regs that will keep playing once they know they are losing regs.

There are a lot of other issues with it as well.

How are you going to handle security?

How will you pay for legal representation when the US comes after you? regardless of whether you are right or wrong?

Anyway, good luck. I could actually see this being a very small site if you put enough effort into it. Lots of sites fail and it is a significant amount of work. It would be sorta cool if this works though.

genjix.. posted this on LP. hope that's ok. let's see how they react. i think they will react more in a negative way which is what i want. i just wanna rattle the cage over there. lol

Check our document on WSEX:
http://www.kartludox.org/index.php?t...ake-free_Poker

Word-of-mouth. Being community-run and free does not exclude funding i.e merchandising, paying for 'donation' stripes on your avatar, ...

Re-hashed a billion times in this thread... I'll make a document about this since it's asked so much. Basically OpenSource software is 100x more secure than closed-source.

-------------------
-----------------------

I won't? Writing software and distributing it is not illegal. The person running the servers handles the risk. Good luck to them. I suggest they tell the US government to get lost.

Im not at all sure what you are proposing now. All the work you are going to do will create some software that you will basically give away to people to allow them to run poker sites of their own - but you wont do the running of the poker sites yourself?

Who will?

genjix... wont it be better if the whole structure were P2P? so that everyone is both a client and a server...

Casinos. twoplustwo could start a site, maybe google, facebook, yahoo, individual poker forums, random businesses that feel like having a room. Entrepreneurs and ambitious businesses.

This.

There are obviously a lot of issues that need to be worked out somewhere down the line, but all of the issues that have been broached so far are issues so obvious I would assume anyone involved in the project has already been thinking about solutions to them; and wherever there's a problem, someone will inevitably come up with a good solution eventually. Since the project is OSS, it just means that it will be easier and faster to implement and there will be no shortage of other people willing to pitch in and improve the solution.

A few of the issues broached will also only become an issue if the site blows up huge, and if that happens, there are going to be a lot of people with a vested financial interest in throwing cash at these problems if that's what it takes to solve them.

looks like a mutual hand-job, but believe it or not i had elready copied this to quote:
full agreement.

thanks to fellow WA.

edit: what did p5 do?

A long-term ambition of mine. Lets start small. Gather money, brains, experience & infrastructure to enable that earth-rocking project. P2P is subversive. It's the rebel to learned science and technology wisdom.

The future lies with P2P. We're in early days with our blogs, wikis and forums based on everyday basic paradigms. Our future has colour, life, speed. Our future has more.

My jaded view of history only sees: Gutenberg press and the Internet. The third wave is always the largest.

Somewhat in this vein of thought, to solve the problem of the site holding on to everyone's 'cash' at once, couldn't each user keep their bitcoins on their personal computers or in a bitcoin ewallet, and just have the software automatically send money to whoever is hosting the game you're sitting in whenever you buy in or top off at the table?

Couldn't someone also modify this software so that anyone can host a game and invite whoever they want? This would solve a lot of issues eventually and would lead to a lot of innovation and competition in my mind. For example, if letting the client have certain privileges or taking certain precautions really would cut down on or eliminate bots/colluders and that was something people really cared about, whoever provided a creative solution to that issue would start to get more customers. This can be extrapolated to any of the issues at hand. If any issues with internet poker can be solved, I see them being solved much faster in a distributed, open source method than with just a couple of major sites who don't want to rock the boat too much.

One possible solution I see to solving the problem of bots and autocalculators/etc while still allowing custom clients would be sending images instead of text hole cards. Have users submit images that are different enough that an OCR method would have trouble keeping up, but that wouldn't significantly impede people reading their cards or the action. Then when the Ac needed to be sent, a random image of Ac would then be pulled from a bank of hundreds of Ac's, and the user would receive this image when they were dealt that card.

We need ideas people and testers. You're the lifeblood of any project.

PM me your emails. We're setting up infrastructure to provide you the blank canvasses you all need to self-organise. We have equipment and can provide services the community needs.

Thanks

I'm about to get a bit technical so everyone else close your minds- it's not for you. I snipped a lot of your message, but I'm responding to that too.

When a new coin is created, it's done by a computer finding a solution to a mathematical problem (SHA hashes). Once it finds the solution, it broadcasts the coin which is signed with it's own key to the surrounding nodes who verify and check that the transaction is valid.

They then incorporate this new coin belonging to that node into their block chain. The block chain is never ending story of money flows in the economy. Everyone can see where and how the coins are spent. Any node that tries to generate false coins is caught out and shunned as a cheater because the hashes don't match. When you spend a coin, you're actually signing it with the key of the receiver. The surrounding nodes verify using public-key encryption that it's actually you that's signing the coin and incorporate it into their block-chain. Other nodes verify those block chains generated by the verifiers are correct and pass it on.

All this process takes time. When you spend a coin it might take a few seconds before a node picks it up and starts checking (0/Unconfirmed)... a couple of minutes before 1 or 2 nodes confirms it (1/Confirming) and maybe 15 mins before you can be reasonably sure that the payment is genuine (6/Confirmed). By now it's very unlikely there's any wrong-doing.

If you wanted to be able to spend quickly, you'd need to somehow verify that coin has been signed with your key. All security systems are based on networks of trust, and anyone who says otherwise is lying. One way I imagine could be possible would be using statistical methods to quickly generate a bayesian identity that the transaction is genuine to a large degree (60%) combined with a tit-for-tat approach if the node turns out to be a scammer by blackening his name.

For more details on the bayesian concept, see my article,
https://n-1.cc/pg/blog/openid_44398/...esian-security

More thoughts like this. The correct creative direction to be heading. Issues I see are:
- Custom theming for tables.
- Bandwidth usage increases loads (right now the protocol is very minimal and low-bandwidth) so it'd increase costs a ton. Would it be worth the trade-off?

Hang on. None of the people youve listed are the "poker community". People who like playing poker and would want to create a site that made them no money other than the possiblity to not pay rake while they play poker.

All of the people youve listed are businesses (yes, even 2+2) and they put the time and effort in to make $$.

I thought throughout this thread people were assuming YOU would be hosting the games - hence all the discussions about server costs.

The idea is that anyone can create a room. You could create one on your own but how would you advertise it or get people to trust your server for reliability or anything else. Maybe a team of volunteer poker players could distributively host a poker room with it's own set of rules and self moderation, but that's a separate project.

I want to be very very clear about this, and I will add this to our FAQ later.
Very clear.

We are making Poker software that anyone can use. That's one project. http://kartludox.org

We're also organising a Poker site to start with. http://bitcoinvegas.com
We plan to run that site community based as much as possible.

But I don't want them to be connected in people's minds. Kartludox is neutral and non-affiliated with the site. BitcoinVegas is just one possible Poker site out of many that happens to be the first.

you sold me on Linux

gl with the site, seems like a cool idea.

Thanks for this. Just for added clarification, will each site have it's own playerpool, or will this be a one network/multiple skins situation (or both?)