Hi
(English is not my first language and I try my best to write here but please correct my English or try to understand what I am trying to say, ty)

I have been addicted to Chinese poker, old style to OFC.
I used to play at Tonybet (regular & progressive) and when they shut down I moved to coinpoker but the action wasn't great.
I played private club at PP where I learned about ultimate joker.
Then ******* opened up and I play there a lot.
Tonybet, CoinPoker, private club at PP then KK,
I have been lucky and I am a winning player at all the sites.
I play HU only, never 3 handed unless someone jumped in.

I decided to try on Australian PP union. (no name mentioned here)
I mainly played progressive or ultimate joker.
I could tell that there are a few OFC bots even PP or the owners denied.
Personally I don't care if there are OFC bots because I don't think bots can beat me especially with joker.
I joined the union with few of my friends together, they are pretty good players too.
We all lost & left and I thought maybe it was downswing or just unlucky.
Even though I had strange feeling how I lost.

Then I decided to give it a try on PP union in Philippines.
One day, less than 8 hours total, maybe around 800 games.
I lost around 10k points with joker.
Yes I had losing experience more than 10k points for longer period before.(about a month)
I felt that something is not right here, same feeling I had with Australian union.
The bots set cards unusual way and seldom miss.

Example,
A
QT
64s
on first 5 cards, you never put 64 in the bottom.
The bot would make QT two pair in middle next round, then hit miracle with A fantasy.

It seems that the bots can see upcoming cards so they can set accordingly.
I am not saying that they can change the shuffle, just able to see upcoming cards.
That's why sometimes the bots lose and even they make A fantasy it doesn't go re- fantasy and end it only once.

I have been searching on this issue on internet but no luck that's why I am here to discuss.
My theory is like this,
someone who found solution to see upcoming cards,
they created OFC bots and they never sell or share.
for individual or small group of people,
even the rate is low, it is pretty good income if they try everywhere in the world.
I don't think PP would do this, they make enough money from the rake.
The owners of clubs, maybe ? but I doubt they would do this.

The bots have unique patterns when they come in and out, how to play, of course they never reply my chat.

Does anyone have the similar experience ?
Or am I just too stoned ?

thanks

No clue about OFC but I'm pretty sure that HU NLHE 2/5+ games on PPPoker/UPoker are full of superusers.

The most likely explanation on the origin of the backdoor is that the software was built with the backdoor and cheating as the business plan.

So, this actually has nothing to do with bots, as you are making a common mistake and conflating botting with superusing. A bot has no ability to superuse that a person couldn't do as well. You mention that you don't think PP or even club owners are doing it, so what is it you're imagining - hacking bots? I would suggest what you are suspecting isn't bots, but superusers. The two are not related. They could be superusing bots, but the superusing is the important part to prove.

In addition, you're taking this a step beyond what a "traditional" superuser would be capable of. Typically, we think of superusers in the way they've been proven before at Cereus (Absolute and UB) - they could view hole cards, but not cards to come. That's because they foolishly programmed in the ability for admins to see the hole cards presumably for testing purposes, which really isn't necessary and adds in an obvious vulnerability. To be able to see the cards to come would be a much larger vulnerability, and I can think of no reason for a site to have it, if not to cheat. And it would have to be PP themselves programming that ability in. If the ability isn't there, then there should be no ability for even a hacker to see the cards to come, especially if the site uses a continuous shuffle.

If something nefarious like you have described is going on, I think there are just a couple of possibilities, both of which are possible for either bots or real people to implement:

1) The site itself has programmed their software to allow admin access to cards yet to come, and is using that to cheat players.
2) Someone outside the site has managed to not only hack the site, but also the RNG itself and found a vulnerability to allow them to know what cards are coming, or the site uses a fixed deck and they have hacked through to that as well.

If we ever do find superusers again, I don't think either of those possibilities are the most likely. Instead, I would expect they would fall into one of a couple different categories:

1) Cereus-style. A site allows admin hole card access, either due to terrible practice or with ill intent, and someone inside, or a hacker outside, gains said access and cheats players. Using a bot to execute the actual playing would be advantageous in terms of volume, but what happened at Cereus shows that if someone wants to do this long term, they need to be smart about picking their spots to avoid detection; this would require some pretty sophisticated programming to pull off with a bot.
2) Hackers infiltrate other players' computers so they can see their cards. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this has happened, and still does. The possibility would be rather site agnostic because it relies on compromising players' computers, rather than the poker software. Again, a very sophisticated bot would be required - I'd instead expect this to be pulled off on a much smaller scale volume-wise, but at high stakes, by real people.

If you want this thread to stick around as a standalone thread, you are likely going to need to provide a lot more evidence than your anecdotes.

thank you for the replies and I learned a new word " superusers"

I am familiar with what happened with UB (Cereus) as well as planet poker (hack RNG).

"the suspicious opponents" have the similar characters.
- use default icons
- use default name (numbers)
- have very low game numbers played
(I am not VIP so I can't see all stats)
- they don't sit and wait for players at middle limit
(assuming at NLH they wait ? at OFC the higher limits seem they are waiting ...)
- almost the same timing to continue & quit
(at OFC heads up, when you scoop or win most of opponent's stack, most of us leave and open new table with EV reasons unless the opponents are really bad, all of them, they don't leave and let me wait rebuy when I lose. The players I assume human, they leave even I lose 50% of stack. This is very common in Philippine since the country is not rich)

I don't think someone using the backdoor to see my cards and win since there is no betting at OFC.
Also compromising someone's computers doesn't help how ridiculous they set first 5 cards and hit miracle.

Yes I understand that I have show more evidence and I will try my best.
I can provide,
- what limit
- if this happens when I am x position
- what club they belong
- samples ridiculous first five cards set
Please let me know what I should look for, I appreciate your advise !

since my mind is full of doubts right now,
here is a funny story I can share,

I was talking to my agent how I feel about "the suspicious opponents".
She is stupid enough to tell my story to the owner.
According to her, he denied all and said the union is clean and safe.
After this,
I see much less actions at OFC,
there were so much action, waiting players at all limits, something I have never seen before.
Even middle of the night, someone showed up 5 mins after I sit.
Today I had more than 10 sessions and I assume they are all human.
Funny part is that I sit and wait for players but today I had to give up after I wait for more than an hour..... never happened before
the club owner is involved with this ?
please understand that this is not logical story but that's how shaddy I feel now.

As I mentioned the above,
I will try my best to show evidence and pls help me what I look for.
I am not Pro, I play OFC because I love it.
Playing at the union doesn't motivate me much but I want OFC community to grow so I will try my best !

After the last post,
there was no "the suspicious opponents" for 3 days.
I was up around 6000 points.

Then "they" came back yesterday.
I lost around 15k points with 735 games.
Even though I couldn't win I continued to play to find out "the evidence".
Again as I mentioned before,
losing more than 10k points with such short numbers,
it is almost impossible, I never have experience like this for almost 10 yrs.
And it happened twice in a week !

It is hard to find the evidence but here I write a few things I found out.

- many different clubs
it means they come from different clubs not only one

- they never sit and wait for players at joker but they do at progressive & regular

- almost all of them have less than 1000 hands played in stats

- they have identical leaving from the game timing

- they play multi tables

I was NOT sure till what happened till yesterday.
Now for sure there are "the suspicious opponents"

Now I am waiting at the table but they don't come

Nobody has similar experience ???

Also,
please advise me what I should look for
I really want to get the evidence.

If you still play vs them record all your seshs and post.

I came to the conclusion this is the only way.....

I'm an avid player of pine. I feel your sentiment and could grasp what you are trying to say. I've been playing various stakes from low up to 20usd regularly for the past few years. It's 100% bots filled, they are just waiting to pounce on normal players like us. The OFC is probably scripted. Safe to say, the winning bots are from the people behind it. Anyways, let's keep in touch via other platform.

pretty sure there is something shady at pokerbros
im highstakes crusher since 15years and cant make there winnings
day by day unknown players come and i loose insane against them which are obv not on my skill level

Hey Man,

I don't play what you play I play Omaha 5, but ur absolutely correct. Lately these players with generic names that haven't played that many hands, just crushing it. Some of the best plays I have seen, impossible plays. They don't stick around hit and run, I wish recorded the sessions but its impossible plays, cant get a cent from them. Had me wondering if I am that bad lol, but of course I cant be, been playing for years and usually on the positive side. Something rotten is going on at PP, I pulled all my money out, don't know if I will play again.