lol

You might want to see a therapist and talk about why you're so angry.

Are you really saying that doing something completely legal within a game structure is the same as CHANGING the rules of a game in the middle of it? I'm not the one that made SNE "one big game," Stars is. Given that structure and the fact that people have based their lives and livelihoods on it, making a massive change to the rules of gameplay during the process is unethical, much more so than examining the rules of a game and exploiting it to your advantage. Do you think counting cards is wrong, too?

lol stop using the word unethical like that

there will be shallow tables added where SNE-hopeful shortstackers can battle it out. from what I hear there are plenty of fish that still play these on tilt so it's not like everyone who shortstacks is going to be left in the dark. just those who are terrible at it won't have the advantage of leeching off of one fullstack trying to play vs. other fullstacks.

1

i doubt most of those posting ' SS die' over here are winning at $40/hour.. most are just acting as if they'll win $40/hr if all those SS-ers were gone from the game.. ! lol !

stars did something like this lot earlier, only that they gave deep stackers their own tables..!!

a huge chunk of fish buy-in for minimum (Esp, in FR).. So, this wont hurt SS-ers too badly.!!


no..

winning players must be minority ( deep and full)..does that mean they should be somehow banned from playing poker ?
If anything, that should be good for poker economy, aint it ?

I'll attempt to get 2m VPPs next year if there is still SS-ing.. I'll get 500k this year anyway and 1m if PS doesn't change the games....!!

+1

its too early to say that was for the better !

50bb tables, or table selection..!



lol at anyone thinking SS is mindless shoving.. Trust me, it is anything but that..!

lol.. full stackers will stay..
its been couple of months since FTP made changes.. You could have moved to FTP already ..!







- The fact is, all those complaining are complaining only to force bad players buy-in for more so that they can earn more. If it was purely for the pleasure of playing deep stack poker every one of you should have been playing 50bb tables on PS or deep stack tables on FTP long back. You all could have boycotted the regular tables. Ofcourse, it might hurt you in the short term, but eventually lack of full stackers on regular tables should force the SS-ers out of their game, aint it ?

- Even if FTP has had higher number of cash players due to increased BIs, its too early to judge. Many deep stackers from PS would have started playing on FTP on experimental basis, but the higher number of better players (in turn, lesser winrate) might force many to return to PS's better rakeback system. Probably a reason why PS will wait until April Mid to implement their own changes as they'll have an opportunity to analyse the effect FTP's changes has had in rake generated (aka, player pool).

- Sammykid was right in saying that mid-year changes will affect lots of players who SS to earn rakeback. FTP had a flat 27% rakeback system, something you dont have to plan for or work an year for. But PS's is different. Some have dedicated their whole year to be SNE and its unfair to have mid-year changes after announcing everything about VIP system for the year earlier.

I disagree with 100% he said...

Every ratholer who has a brain should've thought after FT made the changes:

"Well, there is something going on. Probably they will change something during the year, so I better try to learn to play 50BBs+ Poker to be on the safe side"

instead of

"Well, I make a bunch of rake, they will never do anything against shortstacker, what a lame discussion blahbla"


Must suck extremely for u guys, who made a solid living of poker so far without investing much brain or time for theory.

Many of you guys will never be able to beat games fullstacked bc you suck and many will also not be able to beat games with a 35BB stack.

Really really good would be if Stars increases Min-Buyin to 50BBs instead of 35 BBs because then I can guarantee that 50% of you r flat broke til the end of the year...

I mean, I can understand your fear, but as I stated very often the last time:

"Maybe poker is not the game created for u to make a living out of it"

Hey buddy they're a poker site. Poker is the game they provide not some player reward system. Learn to play the game of poker and your "livelihood" will be okay.

On a side note, it's great to see we now how two of these threads.

lol..exactly what I was saying.. you all just want deep stack bad players* all for yourself.. and you aren't too bothered about the 'ethics, integrity etc' that you are all really pushing forward as justification..!!

*termed a bad player since, a deep stack joining a table with 5 SS-ers must be terrible at table selection..!

and btw, if playing a 35BBs stack is so easy and so profitable I don't get all the complaints from the ratholers?!!

Everybody will be satisfied or am I missing something here??!

in which case y dont u just be content with the game they provide,which would obviously include 20bb min buy-in tables.

yes you are.. 35bb might be easy if a good SS-er decides to develop and implement a good strategy..but as of now 20bb is even better. .

.

FTPs peak ring game players as tracked by pokerscout.org, after an initial drop off when they first made the change, has recovered and is about equal to where they were before the change. normal 35bbmin tables at SSNL outnumber cap / short tables at least 5-1.
the same amount of people are playing, with deeper stacks (=more rake bigger pots), and 5 out of 6 players aren't playing against short stackers, so the "recreational players like to buy in short" argument also holds no water. meanwhile without a change stars will continue to get the shortstackers from the other sites, more fullstack regs will continue to leave, and the games will deteriorate to the point of unplayability. it seems so simple. one time.

a ton of my play has been on full tilt lately, might move back again if these changes are good.

there has been a decent drop off on tilt but rush poker may of had something to do with it as well

Moonshine said it better than I.

This.

Sammy, you expect them to let the games further deteriorate for the remainder of the year just so they can be "fair" to the SSers chasing SNE? (how large of a group is that, anyway?)

The notion that they need to be "fair" to a group of players who rely on an exploit is laughable. Giving you guys cap games is more than enough in terms of fairness.

Your argument is that the game is meant to be played across 4 betting rounds. Have you ever been all in preflop/flop/turn? By your logic that is not poker.

yeah slightly, if at all...

Peak traffic history from pokerscout:
January 14 1:29 PM 27093
January 15 1:58 PM 25061
January 16 12:43 PM 23886
January 17 12:56 PM 26409
January 18 1:08 PM 28620
-> 35bbmin changes announced:January 19 1:31 PM 20663
January 20 1:08 PM 19786
January 21 1:07 PM 19248
January 22 1:47 PM 26245
January 23 1:10 PM 24759
January 24 12:00 PM 26181
January 25 1:39 PM 26882
...
February 21 1:00 PM 24139
February 22 1:03 PM 26131
February 23 1:23 PM 25993
February 24 1:58 PM 25527

although i'll concede i don't play FTP that much and these numbers could be misleading...

The difference between cash games and tournaments is that a player is free to leave the game anytime he sees fit. Poker is a strategy game with a set of rules. Aside from those rules there is nothing saying how you're supposed to play.

I was just countering the argument that 'pokerstars provide poker and not reward system' !!

I do agree with most of what moonshine has said.. Yes, short stacking might not be good for those wanting to play full stacked, but its not as if you guys have no option of playing deep stacked. Pokerstars have had 50bb min buy-in tables for some time now.

Its the attitude of wanting all by yourself by completly eliminating everyone else who affects your winrate, that doesn't go well with us short-stackers. And, obv there is a question of respect. If you guys think SS-ing is so easy that 'anyone' can do it, you are wrong. It takes some learning, adjusting to different stakes , hand-reading ability etc, besides being good at maths. And, it takes lots of time learning unlike some saying that they can do it in a day, with a hand chart. And, no-one likes to be forced out of doing something that they have put so much time and effort into learning.

You're absolutely right.
Do you agree that a minimum buy in serves a purpose?
If yes, than you can see that 20bb is currently not adequately serving that purpose in the context of standard 20-100bb games.

If no, would you support moving the min buy in at standard table to 10bb?