I wonder if there might actually be something to this. Add those guys back into the system and then they can no longer complain that the fish don't want to play with them and maybe it will mix up the balance enough where every table no longer has 6+ shortstackers on them.

wow...ssers really are delusional.

How about they change 50bbmin to standard tables and the current standard to 20bb min and see what happens. That's the true problem and it's been stated several times. The idiot pro ss'ing guys in here keep waiting for some full stacker who plays nl10 to complain so they can make him look dumb.

lots of shortstackers acepted that afaik

I've seen at least one SS'er say that the reason fish don't choose 50bb tables normally is because it isn't the standard. This was the one ss'er I can recognize (and probably the only "respectable" one). That is Curtains.

I'm curious whats your screen name anyway. I'd love to know SN's behind 2p2 names.

I don't really care either way but can't we wait maybe a month into changes before declaring FULLTILT BEST FISHIEST GAMES UNTIL THE END OF DAYS

I doubt any SSer would accept that, because all fish are going to go for 'standard' tables. Don't name any tables standard, name them 20bb and 50bb and list them both in the default lobby view alphabetically. This way the fish will find their ways into both games in equal number, and if they don't at least all arguments about the fish choosing or being railroaded into one game or the other can be dropped.

responding to subscribe.

Why is it that no limit is listed as its buy-in amount when that isn't even really true? No form of limit poker is listed as it's buy-in amount because it makes sense to list games by bet size. So why doesn't no limit just get listed by blind size, and within each blind size categories there can be tables delineated with different buy-in sizes?

-Michael

I think shortstackers should be banned in tournaments also, we can't see flops with so many preflop all-ins.

I think cash games should have variable stakes that increase with time?

Tournaments rot your soul.

Part of the reason is the stack disparity.

seriously, it might be for the best if they deleted the 50 bb tables and made the minimum 35 at every table. shortstacking per say is alot different on the euro tables with 35 bbs. the decisions are different.

it really might be better for the games long run if they just made every table 35 of course it might be bad for the bottom line in the short run so i don't know if they would do it.

2 types of tables:

50 bb min

20 bb min

discussion over

I feel smarter having read this

I'll bet my whole Stars roll on it too. All $0 of my Stars roll.

Seriously, Stars: get rid of the ratholing problem. I generate tens of thousands in monthly MGR, and you will never see any significant percentage of that business with the current state of the game on your site.

It appears to be getting worse day on day I've never actually wanted to leave stars before, but ftp is just so much more appealing for next year.

If FTP comes through on revamping their VIP program and makes it anywhere in the vicinity of stars the decision to move will be so lol easy.

as ftp and partypoker introduced 35bb tables, I think stars should do the same.

Don't know if this matters. But i would love to see a minbuyin of atleast 30bb. The shortstacking pushers so much destroying the fun of play.

FTP is supposedly going to announce a revamped/expanded VIP system some time this year. Whether or not bit will be on par with Stars remains to be seen. I am duly impressed with FTPs recent software and service upgrades, so I am hopeful that the new VIP system will be good.

I'd personally be very surprised if the buy-in structure stayed the same. I am sure this isn't an easy decision because some of their SNE "pros" are shortstackers right? I think a few of them might be.

Anyways, I play on both sites but am a PlatinumStar player on Stars ... if there's no change, that's fine and up to Stars. As a consumer though I get to decide where I play, and that won't be at Stars.

I guess I don't understand why shortstackers should be allowed to play people who don't also play 20bb poker. Structurally they have a big enough advantage that they force everyone else at the table to either play shortstack poker or lose. The only profitable way to play at a shortstack table is to shortstack. Give them a 20bb CAP game and let recreational players who want to play 20bb CAP play in the game. Create a new tab in the Lobby for NL Cap Hold'em and state the rules of both games clearly.

The shortstack variant of poker will be the dominant one unless CAP games are instituted and the minimum buyin raised. I really don't think that any of us ever started to play poker to play mathematical preflop holdem. It's a really tedious game that honestly would attract very few new players without the carrot of easy money.

If we have to chose between the slow deterioration of bigger buyin no-limit to shortstacking or the separation of shortstacking from the bigger buyin poker. Separating shortstack is the best option for the games of the future.

20-50bb and 50-100bb tables are not a good the solution to the problem. People who buyin for more than 20bbs will still suffer a significant disadvantage against those who chose to buyin for 20bb and would still unknowingly be playing a CAP game. Give people the opportunity to understand what game is actually being played.

Oh and one more thing one of the core tenets of no-limit was that stacksize should not be a determination of who wins and who loses. That is why tablestakes no-limit was created to keep wealthier players from forcing other poorer players out of the hand and ultimately out of the game. This will occur in reverse if shortstacking is not separated.

Anyone who wants to play the push/fold game can go join a tourney. Let the big boys play the cash games.