Let me preface this by saying it appears I did breach their terms of service but I did not do so intentionally. I have responded with 100% truth to all of their questions and provided documentation to support all of my claims.

I live in Ontario as I have all my life. Recently I took a 2 day trip to Ohio to bring our kids to a water park for a couple nights. Our kids go to bed at 8 so we're prisoners in our own hotel room so I decided to fire up pokerstars and play some poker.

What I know now that I didn't know was that apparently even though I'm a Canadian resident I am not allowed to play pokerstars from within the US. I was able to login and play because I have subscribed to a VPN (Private Internet Access) since December of 2014. The software on my laptop automatically logs me into the VPN as soon as I turn it on. I started subscribing to this service to maintain privacy of what I do on the internet due to changing legislation in Canada and an unwillingness of ISP's (specifically mine, Teksavvy) to defend the privacy of their customers. I have been playing on pokerstars through this VPN from my home in Ontario since December up until this point.

I will attach the email correspondence in a following post but essentially I received an email from pokerstars stating my account had been suspended pending an investigation because they have record of me logging in from the United States. At some point when I was playing and dealing with ****ty hotel/hot spot wifi I disconnected the VPN because I thought that might be the issue for my ****ty connection. I don't know exactly at what points i disconnected or reconnected but at some point over the course of the 2 evening I know this did happen. The VPN automatically connects on a reboot so I'd have to manually disconnect as opposed to manually connecting it.

I have provided pokerstars with this explanation, provided all documentation including ID, credit card, hotel receipt for the 2 nights, and a copy of my credit card statements going back into mid February demonstrating I was in Canada for all days other than the 2 nights in question.

I get an email today stating they have concluded their investigation and they are seizing all funds in my account but my account is now active again and I am free to deposit. WTF???

We aren't talking a huge amount of money. I don't know the exact amounts in question but I think I had $200 something in my account when I left and came home with around $420. I played for approximately 3 hours each night, playing $15 and $30 SNG's and multi table SNG's.

Poker is a weekend hobby for me. I make a little bit of money but nothing significant. My money management philosophy is withdraw $500 anytime I crack $1000 so all in all this could have been worse. My main issue is the punishment does not fit the crime. What does someones account balance have to do with the punishment? I'm sure there are people who have lost much more than me but why should it matter if you have $25 in your account or $25,000?

Dear xxxxx,

We are writing to inform you that your account is suspended pending a standard security check, which many of our players have successfully undertaken.

An initial review of your account has revealed that you may have used PokerStars real money services while you were physically located the United States.

As a result of this initial review, PokerStars has determined that:

1. You FIRST used PokerStars' real money services from the United States on/around [3/2/2015].

2. You LAST used PokerStars' real money services from the United States on/around [3/19/2015].

3. During the above period of time, you were revealed as connecting to our services using the internet service provider (ISP) [Buckeye Cablevision], which we believe provides consumer internet services in the United States.

4. It seems that during the above period of time you may have tried to hide your true internet protocol (IP) address, so as to appear to our automated servers that you were not located in the United States.

In moving forward, we would appreciate if you could please address the following questions:

1. Where are you currently located?

2. Have you used PokerStars' real money services while physically located in the USA since 15 April, 2011?

3. If so, are the dates that we have listed above for your first and last access from the United States correct? If not, what are the correct dates for your first and last access from the United States?

4. Is there any other information that you would like us to take into account here?

Furthermore, we request that you please provide the following documents:

1. A clear photocopy of a valid Government issued ID card or passport (front and back).

2. If you were visiting the USA, we kindly request that you provide us with a copy of your passport's entry stamp into the United States and the entry stamp into the next country that you visited when you left. If you did not receive either stamp, we may accept copies of your flight itineraries and/or boarding passes.

3. If you were not in the USA we require proof of your whereabouts during the dates in question. We can accept a Bank or Credit Statement showing transactions placed in the following dates: from "03/01/2015" to "03/19/2015".

Please note, if you only receive online bank statements you are welcome to send a screenshot of your statement, ensuring your name, current address, and a recent date are clearly visible. The image taken must be of the entire screen as the URL (the address of a web page on the internet) must be visible.

* If you are providing a Credit Card statement, the statement should show the first 6 and the last 4 digits of the card, and the rest of the numbers should be black out.
* If you are sending a Bank statement then, you will need to black out the whole account number

Our request for information is made in line with our Security Policy, as detailed in our Terms of Service. Please refer to the link below for more information on our Terms of Service, most notably section 4.3, which relates directly to the matter of account verification.

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/tos

Please be advised that, on occasion, we may be required to amend the Terms of Service. It is your responsibility to keep up to date with any changes made to the Terms of Service.

Please note that we need to receive all the documents listed within 48 hours and that any missing documentation will contribute to a delay in the verification process, which may take up to 72 hours.

Please use a scanner or a smartphone to obtain clear images of the requested documentation and send them to:
us.investigations@pokerstars.com.

Alternatively, you may send the document by fax at the following number:

Attn: PokerStars Location Investigations Team
Fax: +44-1624-630899 (international)
Fax: 1-800-631-9050 (Canada toll free)
Fax: 00800-7653-7782 (UK & Italy)

Please ensure that if you are sending documentation via fax that you clearly write your User ID on every page.

Once we have received all the required documentation we can then proceed further with your account review.

Please also note that using another account to play on PokerStars during this review will cause any such account to be closed and the funds therein confiscated.

We appreciate your understanding and cooperation and look forward to hearing from you.

Kind regards,

Marco
PokerStars Security Investigations Team

I think I have an explanation for what happened. First off let me state that I had no idea you could not log into pokerstars from the United States. I knew that their were restrictions for US residents but that doesn't apply to me so I've never bothered to look into the specific rules.

I subscribe to a VPN service for privacy purposes. The VPN service is called Private Internet Access. It is strictly for privacy purposes and has nothing to do with masking my IP from Pokerstars. That being said the software that connects me to this VPN starts automatically when I start my laptop and therefore I would always connect to pokerstars through this same VPN. I started using it in late 2014.

As for the event that probably initiated this email I was in Ohio this past Sunday and Monday night, March 15 and 16 and accessed my pokerstars account after my kids went to bed both nights. I'm guessing at some point the VPN disconnected and you picked up the local IP. To my knowledge this is the only time I've accessed pokerstars from the United States.

Anyways onto the formal questions:

1. I am currently located in xxxxx, Ontario. I have lived at my current address since 2012 and have been a citizen and permanent resident of Canada my entire life.

2. Yes

3. I would have accessed pokerstars from xxxxx, Ohio March 15-17, 2014. I'm guessing but don't know for sure that the date range you have provided relates to the time period in which I would have been connecting to the same IP through the VPN. I don't understand the technical side but is it possible they would have changed the IP on March 2nd. I've been using this service since late 2014 and have only accessed my account from Canada until this point.

I have attached copies of my passport, drivers license, screen shots of my credit card statement going back into mid February and a copy of our hotel receipt from Groupon. We entered the US on March 15 and exited on March 17. My credit card statements show "posted" dates and not "transaction" dates so the dates are off by a day or two in some cases.

Dear xxxxx,

Thank you for your email.

We are writing to inform you that we have completed our investigation as a result of your access to our real-money services while located in the United States (or territories of the United States).

In accordance with the agreement between PokerStars and the US Department of Justice and also in accordance with our Terms of Service, which can be found on the link below, most notably sections 5.11 and 8.1:

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/tos/

Please be advised that, on occasion, we may be required to amend the Terms of Service. It is your responsibility to keep up to date with any changes made to the Terms of Service.

During our investigation, we were able to determine the following:

1. Your first day of access to PokerStars real-money services from inside the United States was Mar 15 2015

2. Your last day of access to PokerStars real-money services from inside the United States was Mar 16 2015

Based on the above information and in accordance with our Terms of Services, we would like to inform you that your account balance has been seized and your funds will be redistributed to appropriate responsible gaming charities around the world.

Now, if you continue to access our real-money services from inside the United States after the issue of this final warning, your account will be indefinitely closed, and all available funds at the time of detection will be seized as well.

This also extends to all individuals who are detected using PokerStars real-money services from the United States, regardless of whether or not you are residents or citizens of the United States. It applies to you whenever you visit the United States.

Consequently, your account has been reinstated and you are welcome to use your account in accordance with our Terms of Service.

We strongly advise against the use of a VPN software in the future, when accessing our service.

We thank you once again for your co-operation and hope that you will continue to enjoy playing at PokerStars.

Kind regards,

Luis
PokerStars Security Investigations Team

I think the penalty is a bit excessive considering

A. It was a one time violation
B. I did not intentionally try and circumvent any rules or terms of your service
C. When questioned I cooperated fully and answered all questions and never once tried hiding anything
D. Your terms of service don't explicitly state that which jurisdictions it is illegal. At the very least you should provide links to where you can find such information

In addition to all this the penalty is not equal to all violators of these "terms". For a person with an account balance of $20 the penalty is negligible. For me it is 20 x that amount. For others it could be even greater.

Is there any recourse for this? Are they justified in seizing the entire account?

They can do whatever they want unfortunately. I think there is even a TOS that states they can change the TOS whenever they want, lol. With the recent hackings and the debacle on there part they will probably make good example of this to prove they are on top of security no matter if you made an honest mistake. Unfortunately for you there is no set fine for these offenses so be thankful you didn't have 25 k. They do state seize funds so they can only take what you have. It's a pretty no brainer not to play in the United States. I'd even be shy to play from the falls on the Canadian side. On a good note when you deposit you can use a credit card with someone elses name, lol

What they are doing is pretty standard. I think that generally in these types of cases they end up returning the money. That they are allowing you to continue to play on the site, I think, is actually a pretty good indication that there will be a happy ending. As long as there are no victims of cheating, players like you, from what I've seen, usually get their money back.

Funny but so true.

Not that long ago, might have been this year, there was an identical story posted. PS initially refused to listen to the guy, then he posted here, and a short while later he posted that the situation had been 'resolved' and that he was satisfied with the resolution.

To me it seems clear that they relented and allowed him to play again and restored his balance.

Personally, I don't think PS has any justification for the course of action they have taken. I think they should be doing one of three things 1) Closing your account but send your balance back to you 2) Close your account and send all funds that were in your account at the time of your arrival and first playing in the US with the rest going to charity 3) Restore your balance and give a stern warning that if you ever do it again your account will be closed permanently.

The one thing they absolutely shouldnt be doing is taking the entire bankroll but say you are free to play again, that is them just having their cake and eating it, they take your money but say you can deposit and start raking again. **** that.

wat happened above was that PS took his profits when he was playing in the usa i believe and didnt take his whole bankroll which I totally think is fair and so did he.

When I first got the email I figured that losing my winnings would be the worst case scenario. Still no response.

few things firstly i find it hard to know that you did not know you were doing wrong.

I always see this stuff every now and then and it does not make sense.

Do I think it is appropriate for pokerstars to seize an entire roll for playing in the US but continue to allow them to play no not really.

However the consequences have always been made clear there has been several posts here on this topic.

A genuine mistake sure I can see, such as accidentally playing cash zoom when you meant to play, play money.

maybe if it was in another country that also banned online poker say Elbonia ( a fictional country) and they seized your roll sure way over the line how could you know every country pokerstars caters to many countries in the world etc.

But US is well known banned and also the punishment is clear.

yeah i dont think its right you get your roll seized but consequences well known.

If you slept around a lot and then got aids sympathies to you but the consquences are well known.

There are many rules in the world which are unfair and punishments over the top but if you choose to take those risks knowing about it its your own fault.

If I visited North Korea I would never dream of slagging of or criticizing Kim Jon even though I think they are reprehensible. It should be obvious why.

Although why i would ever visit North Korea I do not know.

Seizing his roll is such a stupid punishment. What if he had lost all his money? No punishment at all?

IIRC, the seizure of the money is mandated by the legal settlement between stars and the US DOJ.

If this is the case then where do I go to see how much was confiscated last year and given to charity. Undoubtedly this must be public information that the DOJ will supply.

This is exactly how I see it.

I don't know, and as I said I was speaking from my recollection of these threads over the last couple of years.

I imagine that the US Attorney's office for the southern district of New York would be the place to start with the DOJ, and obviously stars themselves in the Isle of Man.

Amaya bought PokerStars so PS could start again with a clean slate. I'm not sure whether or not Amaya is bound by any agreements with the DOJ.

Also PokerStars instituted the policy of seizing money from players using VPNs long before any deal with the DOJ was made.

I can understand PokerStars taking a hardline towards US residents trying to purposely beat the system and playing on PS despite the ban; but doing this to a resident of another country who simply messed up is overkill. We lived through BlackFriday so we know the rules but I can understand how residents of other countries might not be as clear about them as are we.

Did Amaya release a full quarterly/yearly accounts as it's a publically traded company, which would show this data from The Rational Group

Fair enough, but where is the line drawn? If the "foreign" player is a semi pro who is inside the USA for 2 weeks and does it, what then? What if is a non professional player who has gone to play the last week of the series and ends up running deep in the main so is there for 2-3 weeks who plays every couple of nights online. Imo it's much easier and fair just to have a blanket 0 tolerance policy for people playing inside of the usa than to have to decide on a case by case basis - I'm talking about who to punish here, not what the punishment should be

There comes a point when it becomes apparent that a player isn't just messing up but that he is intentionally trying to beat the system. Like many things in life and in poker, a judgement call needs to be made. Using a police state rationale to make sure that not a single bad guy gets away with anything, I don't think, is a fair way to go about making decisions.

In my opinion if a player is so bad that he needs his entire funds confiscated then he's bad enough that he should never be allowed on the site again.

I love how they have the balls to just take my money but don't even have the decency to respond to my email. Everything was so urgent when I was required to respond to them but now they just ignore my questions.

Saturday night is usually the night I play poker but I don't think I can bring myself to put my money in the hands of these low lifes again.

Is there anywhere else that has decent traffic for $10-30 sng's? Is party the next best option?

tbh I think Unibet is probably your best pick as a recreational player.

When did they reply last? Its the weekend now and your case is prolly at some level of mgmt that is not in the office on the weekends

It's been about 24 hours but they've always responded up to this point within 6-8 hours at most including at like 2 AM. I would at least like acknowledgement of my concerns and that someone will be in touch within X time frame. You can't just take someones money and then cease communications. Or I guess they can. But it's not very ethical.

I've never even heard of them. Are they reputable?