Hi Everyone

Apologies, this is my 1st post and not sure its in the right area..

I was hoping to get peoples thoughts on what is happening with my account at present. I am a recreational player. Pokerstars customer protection have revoked my playing privileges and restricted any withdrawals whilst they do their due diligence on activity on my account. This has been going on for nearly a month.

I was happy to provide them with all the documents and explanations they requested promptly however, it has been nearly a month now. Since their last email to me approx. 2 weeks ago, and I have not had an update and the account is still restricted.

Just to give some background, they feel something dodgy might be going on, due to large number of transfers to my friends account. In short, I won money on another online bookmaker so I was able to deposit/transfer money to my friend so he could play on Pokerstars slots (not poker). All transfers were mutually agreed between the pair of us and was authorized by Pokerstars. I assume due to the high number of transfers they closed his account and restricted mine. I have been a member of pokerstars over 10 years and have never done anything to break any rules or partake in collusion etc. I have also never had any issues with withdrawals prior to this.

I feel like I'm being kept in the dark even though I have emailed them numerous times and every time I speak to Live chat, they say they don't know how long it will take but will leave an urgent flag on my case.

All I want is to get back to playing poker but I am losing trust with this company and was seeing if anyone else had similar dealings/scenarios to mine?
Can they withhold my funds ?
Any idea how long this process takes to resolve?
Any feedback would be very welcome.

Wtf? Why didn't you just transfered the money using like bank or skrill? You had to deposit to stars and then transfer to your friend who wants to play slots. Why would you do something like this?

And stars support is slow these days it could take months. Just need to wait it out.

Thanks for the reply.

It was a combination of deposited money and winnings via poker that was transferred. I don't see how this was in the wrong though as it was all my money and within the transfer limits..

Transfer was easier at the time (i dont have skrill etc) and it was all authorized by Pokerstars. If I had known I was not allowed to transfer money to my friend, I would never have done it. I am already a month in for wait time so am prepared to wait it out but this is a very slow response rate for such a big organisation.

All they need to do is look at the game logs to see nothing untoward was taking place and reinstate my account. Its frustrating for me as I have now missed the Bounty Builder series and have expired tny tickets..

From stars pov it might look like laundering esp when you deposit and transfer that to your friend who plays them in slots. I assume he withdraws the cash right?

I made a deposit a few months ago and instantly account was frozen for them to do the security check as well. I had not played in maybe 4 years and had new laptop, new credit card and address etc. They would not respond to my emails after about a week and a half, I told them I need to charge it back if they won't reply I eventually did a chargeback and within a day I get an e-mail from some woman at stars security asking why I did a chargeback. I replied to them that it was because nobody was helping me or even telling me what the problem might of been. They said I can still play there once I explained the chargeback but I have been checking out different sites now instead.

It would be nice if they want to keep someones deposit locked up to at least try return emails within a day or two instead of completely ignoring them, as I have read the same thing happening to several others.

That's the funny thing. He didn't withdraw as he lost most of it on their slots.
If he did withdraw, it was all wagered, i.e raked and trust me he's pretty much lost all of it on their slots.

Yes, my frustration exactly. Being kept in the dark. Literally no response to my numerous chase ups for the last 2 weeks. Not even an update to say how long this process takes.

Yes - this is an increasingly common situation according to other customers on this forum.
Maybe. They are required to be fair to you. It depends on the circumstances.
These days, you might need to wait multiple weeks. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Thanks for taking the time comment.

Update:

They have been in touch today and have requested my latest bank statement which I have provided. Hopefully not too long to go to get this resolved.

Fingers crossed.

Update:

I received the following from PokerStars this morning:

Hello Xxxxxxx,

Thank you for your email.

After a review of your account we feel that it is in your best interest to not wager any further funds with us.
We have permanently closed your account. In accordance with our Responsible Gaming Policy, it will not be reopened under any circumstances. In addition, you will not be allowed to create another account at any point in the future.

We wish you the best in your future endeavors. If you are interested, we would like to suggest three excellent organizations that can offer support and counseling services for those who feel gambling is having a negative impact on their lives.

Gamblers Anonymous: www.gamblersanonymous.org/
GamCare: www.gamcare.org.uk/
Live Chat available 24/7
Freephone available 24/7: 0808 8020 133
GamblingTherapy: www.gamblingtherapy.org
You may also want to consider extending your exclusion to other remote gambling operators by registering with GAMSTOP.

GAMSTOP is an online self-exclusion service enabling players to voluntarily exclude themselves from all British-licensed gambling operators. For more information, visit their website:
www.gamstop.co.uk

Please do not attempt to create any other accounts as doing so is a violation of our terms of service.

We wish you the best.

Regards,

xxxxxxxxx
Stars Customer Protection



Do you know that we offer different options and recommendations to help you play responsibly?

For more information on how to use our self-exclusion feature, setting deposit, table and betting limits, please visit our Responsible Gaming page.


You are receiving this email as a customer of The Stars Group (TSG), who operate brands that are accessed using a Stars Account.

For more information visit: http://www.starsaccount.net/

Malta Address: Villa Seminia, 8, Sir Temi Zammit Avenue, Ta’ Xbiex, XBX 1011, Malta
Isle of Man Address: Douglas Bay Complex, King Edward Road, Onchan, IM3 1DZ, Isle of Man


For starters I don’t agree with their decision as if it’s in my interests, surely that’s a decision for me?
I have been playing for over 10 years and I have lost a lot previously so what makes this recent activity any different.
More importantly they have not mentioned anything about my funds! I have $1K in my account and have asked them to credit that back to me. Now I can’t login to my account to even get live help support as they have perm closed my account. This is ridiculous

Sounds like an oversight for them to forget about your funds. In the past, the Responsible Gaming Team had some of the most outstanding staff in the whole PokerStars organisation. I'd suggest replying and asking about your money.

At the end of the day, you have no right to play on their site, but they do need to be fair when it comes to your outstanding balance, so I'd suggest that you just ask for your money back, and move on.

This is not a sign of money laundering. You have no basis here.

Are you kidding me? This FAR more seems like an email spoofing scam than an oversight.

Not that I think it necessarily is a scam but the idea that a player transfers to a friend who play slots is a reason to slap a player with an email accusing them of having a gambling problem is astonishing.

How bad does one need to act or what is the red flag to take this kind of accusatory action? Its a gambling site. This seems insane. An oversight on the money owed? Seriously?

No, definitely not under responsible gambling regulations/laws.

I've reread this a few times, and I still can't make sense of it. You must have a different definition of "email spoofing scam" than I do, and regardless, I have no idea what that has to do with the chances of it being an oversight.

Yes, seriously. What's so hard to believe about that?

I only see three possibilities - they plan to steal his money for no reason, they plan to confiscate the money for a reason they haven't made clear, or they failed to address it in the email but will give him his money. It seems unlikely they plan to steal the money, as they're not know for that kind of behaviour, and I think an oversight is more likely than a confiscation. But OP should stay on this until they make their intentions clear.

Send us a bank statement or you don't get your money is a very direct and serious security leak especially if you don't verify the sender. You are a very influential mod and josem is very influential.

Bobo. I play moral poker. Always have and you know it.

I mean you really don't think or have some reservations that it's pokerstars communicating with you now? I'm confused.

jbouton,

I see no evidence to support your theory that there's some sort of impersonation fraud being attempted here. I guess it's possible, but that seems awfully unlikely given what I know from the case here, and past experience of reading similar situations on this forum, and having worked for the company for ~9 years.

Do you think that everyone who requires proof of identity for online transactions is conducting some sort of identity fraud? Or is there something specific in this case here which causes you to raise your concern? Why do you think there's something weird happening here?

OK. I have no idea why they asked for a bank statement, what kind of information they required to be on it, or how the sender may or may not have been verified. Nether do you.

OK. Thanks, I guess?

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean, especially in relation to this thread. No idea whatsoever.

What I do know is that you're great at derailing threads, so maybe you could make an effort to be straightforward with your point(s) for once.

Is that what he was getting at? LOL, that's so silly I hadn't even considered it.

Maybe I used the wrong word. But if I got an email saying I have to send my banking info/transactions in order to play and get my money or whatever and I was told in return I can no longer try to log into my account I would double check the sender. Obviously that doesn't even apply to this scenario. Sorry if its all a derail I have to remember these cases in this forum/section are outliers (and feel free to clean my posts from this thread).

I came across wrong. I really meant the feel of it would seem more likely a scam than an oversight. I meant that. I didn't mean to imply I think that its a scam.

You would know better and I can be probably shown to be foolish as the player is paid out the money they are owed in the near future.

It just seemed odd to me but I read the unibet thread where the guy got selfexcluded for asking if there is a selfexclusion option and I realize now it's a reasonable scenario/oversight.

Guys, thanks for your input as always.

So they replied regarding my query about my funds (not even apologizing or acknowledging the oversight on the previous email), stating that once they have terminated my account, another team would proceed with a manual cashout. I have since had confirmation of this cashout and waiting for the standard 3-5 days.

My problem with Pokerstars is (like jbouton alluded to) is how they can just terminate an account because they feel they I am not gambling responsibly. Just for the record, their correspondance has identified higher spending/activity on my account in recent months hence their decision - no wrongdoing or rule breaking from my side.

Bearing in mind I was depositing within my limits, along transfers which were also within the set limits and authorised via stars transfer system, they feel this recent activity was enough to ban me for life. They didn't speak to me, offer a lower deposit limit, offer for me to take advantage of the responsible gaming tools available, just a straight up termination.

I have raked over $100k on this site since I joined (you can check pokerlistings - (Superfish25) same as PS account name) and have lost and won higher amounts than the amounts I have deposited in these recent months. The audacity to assume that my recent spending was enough to ban me for life points to a flawed system and decision process.

I did some research on the Stars Group and they planning to merge with Flutter and have big things planned, so maybe the change in their strategy with responsible gambling is a factor my account being terminated but it is not uniform with how it was previously before Pokerstars was bought, so this is inconsistent. They also own Sky Bet which I have an account with and had an email to say they will be suspending my account due to the connection of the companies. Turns out I could speak with Sky bet and explained the situation and requested them not to suspend my account to which they obliged and my account is pen with them. So their policy on responsible gaming is not unilateral within the companies. The guy I spoke to at Sky bet told me specifically they would never enforce an exclusion on behalf of a customer based on irresponsible spending.

During the process of sending emails (lots of them to chase) to Stars i vented my frustration and tried to put in a complaint about the lack of replies and the timescales they took to reply. Maybe somebody saw this and these emails got their back up (so to speak) and they decided to ban me out of spite.

Unless my case is unique, I am sure plenty of others are in my boat, i.e. spending loads and they should also be flagged up and accounts terminated in due course.

I jut think its a joke they way they have behaved. My last email to suggest I would set responsible gaming limits to my account to control my spending and bankroll mange etc clearly fell on deaf ears as I have not had a reply, so they don't want to know...

Furthermore, with regards to the bank statements, this kind of shocked me when I was prompted. I was cooperative because I thought they wanted to rule out fraudulent activity like money laundering, which is why I gave this to them. But of course they wanted to analyse my spending habits and made a decision to ban me from that. Go figure...

They could have excluded me for a period of time but a Lifetime ban is just unfair IMHO.

First of all, they can terminate your account any time they like, as long as it isn't for reasons of discrimination based on race, gender, etc. They are under no obligation to do business with you. Secondly, them not feeling you are gambling responsibly is an excellent reason to terminate an account. Whether they are justified in this feeling is a separate matter.

From what you've described, it does seem an odd decision. But we're just hearing your side of the story, so it's hard to know for sure.

That said, in your OP you thought this was an issue with transfers to another player. Any way that could tie into responsible gaming?

Or maybe you said something that triggered responsible gaming concerns? Did your venting include anything that could make you look like you have a gambling problem?
This doesn't make any sense. It needs to be all or nothing. If they think there's a serious gambling addiction issue, the ban needs to be permanent. If they don't, there's no need for a ban at all. I don't see what purpose a temporary ban would serve.

As mentioned earlier in the post, the transfer (within the transfer limits) was to my friend who used the funds to play slots and more or less lost the lot. There was no foul play here.

I get you want to protect their integrity & sugar coat it how you want but they've screwed me here without warning. I have lost more on previous sessions playing poker and nothing was flagged up in the past, so are they at fault for missing me gambling irresponsibly in the past and why have they acted now?
Its very contradictory..

Aren't they supposed to engage the customer before making bold decisions like this?

Either way their responses to date have been very vague and doesn't get into the finer details of the exclusion.

I am convinced its because I lodged an email to complain about the handling of my account that they have acted in this way. My tone was polite and professional conveying my frustration of being left in the dark - that was all, no malice.

Unfortunately you cant rule out discrimination either - you cant know for sure because you cant speak to them, its all done via email. At the end of the day their decision is final but still sucks the way its been handled and I am an unhappy customer as a result.

Who said anything about foul play? But the highlighted seems very much like it could be relevant.

I'm not sure what you think I'm sugar coating or how I'm protecting anyone's integrity.

Not necessarily contradictory. Is it possible that they've taken those big losses, added in how you've transferred money that was lost on slots, and made some kind of assessment (valid or not) based on that? And if they have missed you gambling irresponsibly before, then they've acted now, because they've caught it now. Just because they missed it before doesn't mean they then have to close their eyes to it forever. And I'm not saying you are (or aren't) a problem gambler - just that your logic here doesn't make a lot of sense.

I thought they had engaged you. You've talked about multiple emails.

That would be frustrating for sure, and I'd want to find out more if I were you.

OK. My previous remark was based on the fact that you said "i vented my frustration" - not usually the phrasing one sees people use if they were "polite and professional". But that doesn't really address whether you might have said something that triggered responsible gaming concerns.

Do you belong to some kind of racial/gender/other group that they are aware of and you believe they're discriminating against?

Fair enough.

"Hello xxxx,

Thank you for your email.

Please note that our decision is final, your account has been permanently closed and will not be reopened. The reason behind this decision is, as we noted, that we feel it is in your best interest not to wager any further funds with us.

We have forwarded your request to convert StarCoins to cash to the relevant department,our colleagues will be in touch with you about this shortly."

Vague enough for you?
How would you perceive this response resulting in a lifetime ban?

Do you belong to some kind of racial/gender/other group that they are aware of and you believe they're discriminating against?

YES

If other customers come upon this forum and state they have had similar experiences then I'd be more inclined to accept their decision, but until then I am obliged to feel singled out.

If you've laid out the story accurately, I think the issue is most likely related to what you originally thought it was - the transfer. I just reread your first post, and it appears his account was closed? If it was closed for responsible gaming reasons shortly after you transferred him funds which he gambled away, then that's probably your answer.

And what group would that be?

There have been many threads about people being banned for responsible gaming reasons, on Stars and other sites, all of whom felt wronged by it (which is why they started threads).