I think you mean why 6 max should receive less rakeback than full ring.

Yeah I agree, it makes it FEEL like you are getting the shaft even though you aren't really. A few times I thought I'd be getting money right away and then realized I had to clear something. That sucked. I'd be saying Hooray for sure. But why would I quit a site I like because they made an improvement?

Concerning the table in OP, can someone explain the "bonus earned" column?

For example, how can you earn $28.00 in bonuses for reaching SilverStar? I see that you can exchange 1VPP for $10 in Stellar rewards for earning 750 VPPs, but how do you earn the additional $18?

Sorry to be clueless, BTW, I'm a 27% RB FTP player considering moving to Stars.

You don't. The table in the op is completely useless below supernova because it assumes you make your level in the first month and don't play again all year (but can somehow exchange all your FPPs at 1.6c/FPP despite this, that's where the $18 comes from).

If you're not at least platinum all year (and if you are you should be looking at supernova) the total value of the stars program will be less than your FTP rakeback alone (never mind points and iron man medals and biannual bonuses) unless you play a very specific amount in a year.

If you aren't completely confident of making supernova you should stay on FTP and it only really becomes clear to switch at 200k VPP.

This is wrong, the chart is not useless and does not assume that. It assumes you make that level every month, you actually won't earn the $28 the first month since it assumes you are earning 1.5 FPP/VPP.

To get the 1.6c/FPP exchange rate, you'll have to play the 210 or 280 FPP Hyperturbos and sell your $T on the market. See http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32...-worth-853687/ for more info about this.

That said, as you can see from the chart you will earn less at Stars as a bronzestar than Tilt.

Oh sorry, it doesn't assume that. It makes the even worse assumption that you start the month the given level and play exactly enough to keep that level for another month then never play again all year.

The chart is highly misleading (even for supernova as it only includes what would be the peaks on a graph showing rb%), I strongly suggest you just use a table of basic rakeback rates for the level you know you'll achieve and add the stellar bonus rakeback from a graph.

I just discovered your fantastic and very useful post and Google docs spreadsheet, tinkerman. TYVM!

For others who use this chart, please keep in mind that FullTilt reduced the medals awarded to frequent players:
http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/promotions/ironman

ummmm. NO

Ok, so I made spreadsheet with PS rewards program compared to FTP RB and Iron Man. It looks like the point at which PS is more valuable than FTP w/RB is exactly 200K VPPs and the Milestones are the difference. If you are anywhere at all in the Iron Man program and you would make less than 200K (Even 199K) VPPs on PS then FTP w/RB is more valuable. Does this sound correct to anyone?

Sounds about right.

I find it interesting because 200K VPPs isn't that easy to get. I think it's like 47K hands per month at 100NL and much more at the micros. I would say 90%+ of players don't come close to this amount of hands per month. There is a constant debate between micro players that seem to think that PS is automatically better once you get to 50NL+. If anyone can argue against my findings please let me know, because I was going to move over to PS on Jan 1, but now rethinking that.

The only other variable I can think of is any differences between the way the 2 sites calculate rake. Anyone on this?

Well FTPs are worth 2-3% depending on what you play for a start, iron man including the biannual bonuses is theoretically worth up to 25% in the first month, obviously an unrealistic calculation but with realistic play patterns and staying in the program for continuous months it's not bad, and this is on top of 27% rakeback.

In the 100k-200k VPP range it's near enough a toss-up in the long run (with FTP having the edge at least at the lower end; remember that the first year you won't get the supernova multiplier until you reach 100k and depending on your volume you may be playing without it for some of the following years.) The pokerstars VIP program is overrated in these forums for some reason, maybe related to so many micro stakes grinders seriously thinking they can make SNE if they just put their minds to it.

Based on your posts it's very likely that you are missing something in your calculations. If you'd like to post detailed information about how much you play, at what stakes, how many seats at the table, etc., I can help you out with some calculations. If you'd prefer to keep it private send me a PM.

Thanks. I will PM you later.

I found the below charts in another thread in this forum. I haven't done any calculations yet but it looks like a 50NL 6max player will pay about 5.6% more rake after RB on FTP. I believe 100NL is closer to 8% This could be a game changer for me in favor of PS.

This is per 100 hands.

The rake schedule's identical at 50NL except when it's precisely 5 handed. What the chart shows is that the stars games are tighter. (Or more shortstack infested.)

Hmm, thanks. I see that now. I guess I have my answers.

was planning on moving to stars when i hit 2/4, but a little calculation changed my mind.

2/4LHE 6max

FullTilt rakeback rate 1.39bb/100hands --> $2.79/100hands

Stars 45VPP/100hands --$0.016/VPP-->$0.72/100hands... but there is an FPP multiplyer. So if we assume Platinum: $0.72/100hands * 2.5 = $1.80/100hands. And this may be an overestimate, since we cant really be platinum the whole time and we likely cant get $0.016/FPP. Although Ive ignored stellar rewards.

Looks like I might wait til 3/6 to move to Stars.

If you PM me informationa bout hands played I will help you calculate your VIP Rewards. There's a lot more to it than just assigning value to the FPPs.

ThisKid$Tough,
Stellar Rewards will be a big part of your payback at the start. Don't neglect that.

How come the bonus earned on goldstar is 136$?

I'm looking for a few players who are looking for the extra rakeback from PS.

I'm confused about some of these charts, not sure if they are calculating rakeback based on starting the year as supernova or starting as bronzestar?

I'm on the way to making 200k VPPs this year playing FR NLHE. I started as bronzestar.

From my calculations I will have paid $33333 to make 200k VPPs.

For this 200k VPPs I will have earned the following bonuses:
$1000 Stellar Rewards
$1000 100k VPP milestone
$3400 200k VPP milestone
2 x $4000 Bonuses @ 250kFPPs
$350 in Reload bonuses

Total: $13750

This equates to about 41% rakeback starting at bronzestar. Am I doing the calcs correctly?

Add in value of the freerolls i guess aswell, the quarterly is quite nice :-)

Yea, just 41% seems awfully high to me for starting from bronze, I thought you earned at a much lower rate until you got to supernova and started earing about 40% after that?

If my calcs are right I'm pleasantly surprised though!