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PokerStars rakeback equivalent chart PokerStars rakeback equivalent chart

05-03-2010 , 04:34 PM
im wondeirng is ft w/ 27% rakeback > ps $600 deposit bonus???
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05-03-2010 , 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrganicGreen
why don't you net guys play the best, funnest games on both sites instead of making it some miserable job... think you will be +ev in life
Because I play enough where the difference could be in the thousands. I don't know about you but it's a lot more fun when I have more money.
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05-03-2010 , 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortShorts
I don't know the math about any of this, but are you including the deductions in RB from FTP? Any bonus, deposit/cashout, FTP point usage and tournament overlay is removed from MGR.

I'm curious as to how these deductions effects the value between FTP and PS in terms of what a player gets back.
I think this is where everyone is wrong. Iron Man bonus doesn't come out of RB.
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05-03-2010 , 06:53 PM
While this is bumped, worth pointing out the SN freeroll on sat was worth about $300 per player. It was around $250 for the first one iirc, which makes some sense (some players would have lost their SN by now, I guess more than those who already gain it in 4 months. Or perhaps because it was on May day)
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05-20-2010 , 01:24 PM
Bumping this again! Does the chart ITT figure in the rake that accumulates trying to clear the bonus? Wouldn't the rake accumulated trying to clear the bonus have a negative impact on your RB%? maybe I'm missing something so I hope someone could explain. I don't have to clear my 27% rb at FTP. I do have to clear Iron Man, but it's a smaller part of the overall compensation package. Sorry for bumping this so much, but I'm trying to plan 2011.
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07-19-2010 , 02:56 PM
This chart seems much more favorable at lower levels than the chart on FPP Pro.

Does anyone know why there are such discrepancies.
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07-22-2010 , 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingKongGrinder
Bumping this again! Does the chart ITT figure in the rake that accumulates trying to clear the bonus? Wouldn't the rake accumulated trying to clear the bonus have a negative impact on your RB%? maybe I'm missing something so I hope someone could explain. I don't have to clear my 27% rb at FTP. I do have to clear Iron Man, but it's a smaller part of the overall compensation package. Sorry for bumping this so much, but I'm trying to plan 2011.
+1

In particular, this:
"Wouldn't the rake accumulated trying to clear the bonus have a negative impact on your RB%?"

I'm in the same boat as KingKongGrinder. The information in this thread is really helpful. There are still 5 months till 2011, but if I'd like to jump to Stars soon if qualifying as SN by year's end is important.
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07-22-2010 , 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iliketurtle
This chart seems much more favorable at lower levels than the chart on FPP Pro.

Does anyone know why there are such discrepancies.
This chart includes VIP Stellar Rewards, which are huge value at lower levels but not included on FPPPro.
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07-22-2010 , 08:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingKongGrinder
Bumping this again! Does the chart ITT figure in the rake that accumulates trying to clear the bonus? Wouldn't the rake accumulated trying to clear the bonus have a negative impact on your RB%? maybe I'm missing something so I hope someone could explain. I don't have to clear my 27% rb at FTP. I do have to clear Iron Man, but it's a smaller part of the overall compensation package. Sorry for bumping this so much, but I'm trying to plan 2011.
The rake paid while clearing bonuses also gains you additional VPPs and FPPs while you are clearing the bonuses, so yes it is included.
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07-23-2010 , 12:32 AM
Sorry it took so long to answer that Q. I didn't see this thread before. Steve is correct. The "future rake" idea that some are trying to throw into it is completely irrelevant because you are earning additional VPP's and FPP's.

The only way it becomes a negative is if you finish clearing the bonus, and then earn 15k FPP's or something, and then decide to quit PokerStars forever right after clearing the bonus or something like that. In THAT case and pretty much that case only then the time you spent clearing the bonus would have left you with additional value that you are "stuck" with.

But it's also pretty easy to clear away leftover FPP's if you want to clean out your account prior to quitting the site (basically saying, "get out of the earning-FPP/bonuses cycle).
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07-23-2010 , 12:40 AM
I agree with others that the way Stars does it is confusing. And this thread and other observations like those made by the "extra rake paid" types should serve as a warning to Stars that the way they make their players clear the bonuses is actually serving to scare many players away. Even though it's a misconception it's one that many people have and really hurts Stars imo.

Stars naturally has hope that enough players are in the bonus-clearing cycle and stay there exactly because they have difficulty getting out of it. But I'm really not sure that's actually the case. I think the players are either going to stay or they are going to go. And some of the ones that do stay still kind of resent that bonus-clearing thing and having players resent part of the rewards program that they are supposed to feel awesome about I don't think is a good thing.

And then are several players that WOULD have come to Stars in the first place who are simply not doing so because of the aspect of, "why should I have to earn extra points and clear the bonus just to get the rakeback? That sucks. What a ripoff!" It doesn't matter that it isn't really a ripoff as long as you intend on continuing to play there. A lot of players THINK it is a ripoff and that should be concerning. No business should want their customers to feel like the rewards program is a ripoff.

In the hypothetical that Stars ended the "clearing bonus" requirement for all of those tomorrow:
- I don't think many players would be saying, "hooray...now I can get out of the cycle and finally leave as I have been trying/hoping to do so for so long."
- Yet I think many players on the site WOULD say, "hooray...this is awesome. No more stupid bonus-clearing."
- And then many people not on the site would say, "really? That was the only thing keeping me from Stars. I'm definitely switching 100% of my play over there now."
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07-23-2010 , 01:00 AM
I think you summed the different mentalities on "bonus clearing" perfectly Bob. Personally I'd like Stars to consider letting players who are SN+ to not have to clear bonuses, since they are obviously serious players and already are reaping the benefits of the VIP program. This group likely would never leave Stars.

From Stars perspective I see why they have the clearing time. Since a casual player who is with no fpp's in his account and is busto has no motivation to continue playing.
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07-23-2010 , 02:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroBob
Steve is correct. The "future rake" idea that some are trying to throw into it is completely irrelevant because you are earning additional VPP's and FPP's.
Thanks very much for your explanations PokerStarsSteve and MicroBob. Much appreciated.
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07-23-2010 , 02:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andronicus
No. Full Tilt points and Iron Man increase your rakeback by ~5%+. Unless you reach Supernova, you're probably better off at Full Tilt.

If you reach the 200,000 milestone on Stars, you're certainly better off at Stars.

What seems like close to a wash is if you hit only Supernova, but no milestones. In such a case, you are probably better at Stars because your overall rakeback is at least equal to FTP (and is probably slightly higher), the rake charged in certain games at Stars is slightly less, and most importantly the Customer Service at Stars is excellent while the Customer Service at Full Tilt is horrid.
Does anyone know the rakeback equivalents in this scenario?

I'd really like to know how much I'd be losing by playing on FTP.
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07-23-2010 , 10:11 AM
in a range where the rakeback equivalent difference is as small as in the 200k milestone example one should also think of the added flexibility that stars offers by not forcing you to play 25 days out of the month.

Also, whereas every bit helps, everybody should have a keen eye on the relevance of RB to their bottom line. This is heavily influence by how much rake you pay in the first place (talking about tournaments here, it is less significant in cash games as the rake differences are not as high).

If you assume to receive 50% rakeback (%is not important in this example as it is all about the proportion) this would influence your bottom line:

if you play 10+0,25 superturbo HU by 1.21%
if you play 10+1 regular sng/mtt by 4.54%
if you play 20+3.5 ipoker jackpot sng (stupid example, just to make the point) by 7.44%

I thought this is an interesting way to look at rakeback in general.
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07-23-2010 , 10:38 AM
It would be interesting to see a chart for .fr site if anyone with the expertize can spare few minutes
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07-23-2010 , 10:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cashflood
It would be interesting to see a chart for .fr site if anyone with the expertize can spare few minutes
It is almost identical to the 6x (full ring) chart.
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07-24-2010 , 02:32 AM
It says making the bottom tier of supernova you get 6k in rakeback with 350k fpps made but I looked in the store with milestone cash credit which cost 50k a piece which starts from 1000 to 3200 and then 3400 etc. They are all 50k fpps each this should be more than 6k amiright? I figured the milestone is about 12k with 350k fpps did I do something wrong?
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07-24-2010 , 02:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sub-Zer0118
It says making the bottom tier of supernova you get 6k in rakeback with 350k fpps made but I looked in the store with milestone cash credit which cost 50k a piece which starts from 1000 to 3200 and then 3400 etc. They are all 50k fpps each this should be more than 6k amiright? I figured the milestone is about 12k with 350k fpps did I do something wrong?
Each instant cash credit can only be purchased once per year, and if you just earn the minimum number of VPPs required for Supernova (100,000) you can only purchase the 100,000 VPP Milestone Cash Credit for $1,000. Yes this costs 50,000 FPPs, so the other 300,000 FPPs will need to be spent on other things.
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07-24-2010 , 02:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Steve
Each instant cash credit can only be purchased once per year, and if you just earn the minimum number of VPPs required for Supernova (100,000) you can only purchase the 100,000 VPP Milestone Cash Credit for $1,000. Yes this costs 50,000 FPPs, so the other 300,000 FPPs will need to be spent on other things.
Hmm so I see. What other things would you have to spend those on to get max value? The OP states packages and freerolls are not included so is the actual RB number bigger than 35% when you first hit SN?
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07-24-2010 , 03:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sub-Zer0118
Hmm so I see. What other things would you have to spend those on to get max value? The OP states packages and freerolls are not included so is the actual RB number bigger than 35% when you first hit SN?
You could buy a $4,000 bonus for 250,000 FPPs or use your FPPs for tournament tickets or satellites for a similar rate. The Turbo Takedown offers an even better rate, as do VIP satellites to live events. Concierge service offers $0.016129/FPP.

Yes, you can earn more value than what is indicated on the OP's chart if you play the VIP freerolls and value the equity or cash in the tournaments. The VIP Quarterly $1,000,000 freeroll offers a lot of value to those who participate.

It is important to note, however, that the chart in the OP from Supernova on assumes that you started the year as Supernova VIP and earn all VPPs while still maintaining that status. Your value earned will be less in your first year earning Supernova VIP Status as you will not get 3.5 FPPs per VPP on the way to earning the status.

On the bright side, if you play full ring cash games, you earn the same rewards while paying about 9% less rake.
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07-24-2010 , 03:28 AM
Hmm I am thinking about going pstars. 10k roll. 100 buyins NL100. 30 hours a week 20 tabling. Calculator says I should earn 120k vpps each 4 months (I know this might be inaccurate) so I should reach 360k vpps a year (Im assumming I break even at NL200) would his be enough to live on w/ no family? Sorry for long dull question.

btw yes NL100 full ring.
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07-24-2010 , 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sub-Zer0118
Hmm I am thinking about going pstars. 10k roll. 100 buyins NL100. 30 hours a week 20 tabling. Calculator says I should earn 120k vpps each 4 months (I know this might be inaccurate) so I should reach 360k vpps a year (Im assumming I break even at NL200) would his be enough to live on w/ no family? Sorry for long dull question.

btw yes NL100 full ring.
Unless you can live on less than $30,000, no.
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07-29-2010 , 12:55 PM
This chart is rather misleading as it only shows the value of reaching a milestone and not raking a single cent more, and has other issues below supernova because those levels are monthly. To correct this, I made a few charts showing the value of annual VPP milestone bonuses alone (bonus minus FPP cost of bonus * 1.6 since everyone who isn't supernova should be playing the very soft satellites to the sunday million), which should be added to the easy to calculate base rakeback rate.

Base rates for short handed / tournaments (5.5 VPP/$):
Bronze 8.8%
Silver 13.2%
Gold 17.6%
Platinum 22%
Supernova 30.8%
Supernova Elite 44%

Milestones for short handed / tournaments:



Base rates for full ring (6 VPP/$):
Bronze 9.6%
Silver 14.4%
Gold 19.2%
Platinum 24%
Supernova 33.6%
Supernova Elite 48%

Milestones for full ring:

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07-29-2010 , 03:05 PM
I would love to hear the argument from Stars (or anyone else) on why full-ring should continue to receive more rakeback than 6max.

Re: subzero your numbers seem very very low. 30 hours a week 20-tabling 100NL is a massive number of hands, more than 2,000,000 a year, you would get a lot more than 260k VPPs from that.
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