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PokerStars rakeback equivalent chart PokerStars rakeback equivalent chart

01-12-2010 , 07:00 PM
seems like a lot of hoops to get value, can you get cash on Stars? (I should know this but I don't)
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01-12-2010 , 07:22 PM
Thanks OP.
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01-12-2010 , 07:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beanie
seems like a lot of hoops to get value, can you get cash on Stars? (I should know this but I don't)
lot of hoops = playing poker.
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01-12-2010 , 07:49 PM
does this take into account stellar rewards?
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01-13-2010 , 03:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerman
Why is two lovers never enough? Well, once I played for a while I fell in love with Stars and loved her dearly, then one day I saw a pair of sexy legs of full tilt across the road and lusted for her body and dumped stars. Then I realised that I could have both these ladies satisfying my needs and I share my love with them both. Believe it or not Iíll willing to share my passion with another, but who could that love lady be?

OK, so Iím not a faithful man but why? Well love is a two way thing and I want the best of all worlds. Firstly, Iím a low stakes player who really enjoys the game but as I donít really play holdem my choices are limited. Secondly, I like to get value from the game so will take the best offers going and feel no need to stay faithful to any site as we never married but just love fooling around together. Note game selection and others factors are important.

So Iíve looked into the new Stars VIP program:

This is formed of 4 main levels Bronze, Silver, Gold, Supernova (there is a platinum, but these people usually get to Supernova after 12 months so are not included here). Everybody is award Bronze VIP and to achieve the others you need 750 VPPs per month, Gold 3,000 a month, Supernova 100k per year. There is now a stellar reward program where you get cash bonuses when you hit certain milestones throughout the year.

The attached spreadsheet gives the returns for a silver VIP assuming a reload bonus throughout the year of $600.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...la1VOQkE&hl=en

Without taking into account freerolls the RB for these levels given the certain amount of reload bonus at the current clearance rate is:

Reload 0 150 300 450 600 750
Bronze 21.6% 47.6% 49.6% 46.3% 47.1% 47.6%
Silver 23.4% 32.4% 41.4% 51.1% 53.4% 52.4%
Gold 26.4% 28.4% 30.9% 33.4% 35.9% 38.4%
SN 45.6% 46.5% 47.4% 48.3% 49.2% 50.1%

As soon as the reload bonus is introduce we see that a Bronze VIP does better than gold or silver. However, once the second reload is introduce then the Silver has the best return (they actually get a better return at $500 reload than $600).

So a Silver VIP does well and maybe worth doing during the reload times.

Now full tilt is a bit more complex.

Basically, you get a point for each dollar of rake taken and 1k points is worth about $5.

Secondly, you can become a bronze (50pt for 20 days), silver (50pts for 25 days), Gold (100pts for 25 days) or Iron man (200pts for 25 days) member. You get medals compared to how long you have been playing and member status. Each medal is worth $0.2, you also get additional medals for not playing in the freeroll event.

Thirdly, you get a mid and end year bonus Bronze $300, Silver $600, Gold $900 and Iron Man $1,200

Finally, you can get 27% RB of remainder of MGR. Though you can add in other benefits such as RB freerolls, rakerace, happy hours, free training site access and other one of promos which I havenít included as you can get most of these at all levels.

The RB you get for these grades is as follows based on 13, 25 and 37 months play:

1 2 3
Bronze 48.0% 51.5% 57.6%
Silver 56.9% 61.8% 70.9%
Gold 51.3% 55.7% 62.7%
IM 45.3% 48.8% 55.8%

What is most odd here is that again silver gives the best rewards and you need to double your play to reach the next level. Of interest here is that after 13 months the rakeback on the additional play between silver and gold is just under 46% and between gold and ironman is just under 40%.

I can probably make silver without a problem and the same goes for Gold, though would be willing to play more sites if they also had as good a deal. Making Gold isnít a problem either.

However, moving from gold to Ironman seems a big more of a commitment and one Iím not sure I want to make with this lady while there are other beauties around. So my first $5k I give tilt I get returned 50%, yet the second $5k I get less than 40% and if I fail to make it then this is less than 30%.

So I both stars and tilt rewards silver very well but then give less and less, though to be fair at Stars is you become a very high volume player (I never will) then you can get your rewards back. Both these systems encourage me to play around and as such I have both these as my lovers.

However, there will be times when Iíve been satisfied by both these ladies but lust for more. Some Iím after a bit on the side with a cheap little lady whoíll let me use her as and when I feel like it. Anybody have any ideas?

By the way this does highlight that the design of rewards systems arenít the best and secondly you should just keep you play at one site. We are consumers and we need to keep a competitive market so letís make best use of whatís available and let the market place complete more competitively for our business and so take the best deals out there for your level of play. Of course never losing sight the rake that a site may charge or the softness of the tables.

PS: sorry about the bad formatting of the tables, if somebody tells me how I'll edit this section.
Not sure why this was move to this thread. This thread is about the new stars scheme whereas my post is about structures in general and asking where else I can play. Seems very odd when there are so many more closely related threads out there.
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01-13-2010 , 04:55 AM
god i hate the quarterly, weekly freerolls. they may provide cheap tournies for some people but they are a donkfest for the rest of us. i do like these stellar rewards tho
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01-13-2010 , 05:10 AM
Tourny packages and WCOOP package cannot be converted to liquid money so technically not rakeback. In any case, what do the live tourny packages include (say EPT Monte Carlo)? Accomodation? Travel?
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01-13-2010 , 05:37 AM
lol, charts ITT. This is one reason I'm happy at FTP for now.
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01-13-2010 , 07:11 AM
The biggest problem with pokerstars is that you have to commit a year to get the better rakeback rates and then you have to keep it up to retain the better rakeback rates.
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01-13-2010 , 07:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by betsmart
FT deducts bonuses and transaction fees from the RB. It's lower than the 27% you expect.
+1

The main reason I dont play FTP is for this reason. As nice as 27% rake back sound's, the actual amount is some what lower and I guess it all comes down to prefrence. Rake back over bonus' ect, and what you prefer
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01-13-2010 , 10:06 AM
What about all the Happy Hour 2x stuff on Full Tilt? How good was that?

Was it anything as good as the 2X VPPs they did on Stars?
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01-13-2010 , 10:09 AM
Steve/Scotty, can you just post the correct vpp -> rakeback table (cash only)? It would make comparing your site to the "rakeback" sites much easier. You may want to put it on your web site. Thanks.
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01-13-2010 , 10:18 AM
Also, almost everyone makes over 30% "rakeback" on FT. 27% base + ironman + points. You do take a rakeback hit when you use points, but you get around 3x the value of that rakeback hit, so to say rakeback is lower because of bonuses and points is ******ed. You can also use points for select tourneys w no rakeback hit. Also, your rakeback provider usually has a rake race. So I probably make 35-40%. Not quite the 50+% I could be making on Stars, but I also like to take some months "off" so it would be tough for me to meet the monthly maintenance requirements to keep sne. I prefer not to be treated like a circus monkey by my poker rewards program.

Last edited by DoubleFly; 01-13-2010 at 10:28 AM.
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01-13-2010 , 10:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Likey
What about all the Happy Hour 2x stuff on Full Tilt? How good was that?

Was it anything as good as the 2X VPPs they did on Stars?
No. You just get double points, which aren't worth as much as double VPPs.
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01-13-2010 , 11:55 AM
Not sure if this has been said already as I didnt read word for word every post in this thread, but I think you may have overstated the FPP's at each level (I'm looking at the FR and MTT chart). It doesn't really make sense to say:

Goldstar - You have that 3,000 VPP's required yields 6,000 FPPs. You don't start the 2x FPP rate UNTIL you've hit Goldstar. Once you reach the 3k VPP mark, you will have only earned 4,125 FPP's

Silverstar - If I reach the 750 VPP requirement, I'll have the exact same amount of FPP's...it won't be until after the 750 that I start my 1.5x earning rate...

I haven't looked at every single milestone you have listed, but they are definitely overstated it seems.
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01-13-2010 , 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nofx Fan
lol, charts ITT. This is one reason I'm happy at FTP for now.
like the Ironman stuff on FTP, right?
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01-13-2010 , 01:11 PM
very very useful chart, thank you very much

weird how some people are angry at this system
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01-13-2010 , 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCizz
very very useful chart, thank you very much

weird how some people are angry at this system
If you are referring to OP table, keep in mind that the table is not totally correct and is quite understimated.

For example, considering all cash rewards, a 100K SN will get 37.4% (and not the 31.9% mentioned). Moreover, if you consider all cash bonus till now ($300: reload bonus + january sale) it amounts already to 39%!
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01-13-2010 , 01:22 PM
someone clearly knows the answer to this, can you get cash from PokerStars from their VIP system? I am asking because I don't know.
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01-13-2010 , 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplicity8
My chart.. Couple notes:
Very nice chart. Thx.
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01-13-2010 , 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beanie
someone clearly knows the answer to this, can you get cash from PokerStars from their VIP system? I am asking because I don't know.
YES.

The 37.4%/39% that I mentioned on the last post are ALL CASH!


There are 3 ways to get cash from points (generating rate):

> Stellar Rewards;

> Cash Bonus;

> Milestones;


They are all at the store, you use the points to buy them (converting points in cash).

Additionaly you have other cash rewards like the Reload Bonus for example that happens once in a while.
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01-13-2010 , 01:32 PM
OP should correct the chart, imo.

People get here, dont read the thread and then think that is the RB.

It isnt!
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01-13-2010 , 06:00 PM
I"m interested in what % rakeback I will get starting as a bronzestar. Can anybody help me out? I'm aiming for 300k milestone. Thank you.
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01-13-2010 , 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pm22
I"m interested in what % rakeback I will get starting as a bronzestar. Can anybody help me out? I'm aiming for 300k milestone. Thank you.
If you start out as Bronze, achieve Platinum in your first month and keep it until you reach Supernova, you rakeback will be 39.80% ($54,545.45 rake for $21,709.70 bonus). With the Reload Bonus(es) and the January Sale (assuming you have enough FPP), the rakeback percentage will be above 40%.

And yeah, somebody should change or remove OP's charts...
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01-13-2010 , 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pm22
I"m interested in what % rakeback I will get starting as a bronzestar. Can anybody help me out? I'm aiming for 300k milestone. Thank you.
For a 6max/HU/tourney player, its ~$21710 being generated $54545 in rake.

So, 39.8%.

Its 43.4% for a Full Ring player.


This considering stellar, cash bonus (store) and milestones and starting as Bronze. Reload Bonus and other stuff not taked in account.


You "lose" $1690 in rewards by not starting as SN already (this figure is "useful" for anyone starting as bronze and aiming above 100K VPP in 2010).
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