PokerStars.com VIP Program and Ring Game Rake Changes effective January 1, 2012 - Page 5 - Internet Poker

Steve - your company's handling of this has been utterly abysmal. I realise that Stars basically is online poker right now, but this move (which appears to benefit low volume players a little, is bad news for high volume players and is awesome if you are a shareholder in Pokerstars) will be remembered. Your company has worked very hard to earn the status of the best in the market, and you then deliver this (cracking timing on the 28th December)? I guess you have crunched the numbers and think it'll work out in the end.

+1. This is a kick in the teeth for high volume players, and smacks of being monopolistic and greedy. The timing / notice is very poor too.

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12-28-2011 , 12:36 PM

#102

Style129

centurion

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 182

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alrighty Roo

Well this is ****. I'm not even a nit and I stand to lose out. Chance of me going for SN next year just fell to 0%

Also, lol at all the micro ******s celebrating. I play goddamn PLO50 and I'm still gonna lose out, the changes are beneficial to such a small % of players, and an even smaller % of rake paid.

THey are beneficial to the guys who make ur nitting work!

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12-28-2011 , 12:36 PM

#103

Alrighty Roo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 16,269

Well I won't be playing cash at stars again any time soon.

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12-28-2011 , 12:36 PM

#104

Ponder

veteran

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 3,341

mmd 1kplus post in a few months has a lot of opinions that are all obviously wrong to anyone that spends as at least as much time educating themselves as spewing bs out their mouths

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12-28-2011 , 12:37 PM

#105

Alrighty Roo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 16,269

Quote:

Originally Posted by Style129

THey are beneficial to the guys who make ur nitting work!

I play PLO at like 30/20/7. I ain't no nit.

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12-28-2011 , 12:37 PM

#106

robertlanglois

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,897

Quote:

Originally Posted by Style129

I like the changes, they only rly suck for Full ring nits if i got that right.
But for fish enjoying earning VPP's and for lags its very rewarding
I have not found a downside on this yet. I also dont understand why stars is "moneygrabbing" - now imagine every nit starting to loosen up
it would be 2003 again

Nits loosing it up? They won't. They will just leave.

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12-28-2011 , 12:38 PM

#107

PotLimit06

newbie

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 27

3players - $1->$1.5
4players - $2->$1.5
5players - $2->$3
look like FR gets break once again...

waiting for someone to run the hand histories and post rake in ptbb for each limit

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12-28-2011 , 12:38 PM

#108

jspill

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 8,365

Quote:

Originally Posted by ant___z

Seems there is no minimum rake now

i'll wait for someone smarter to do the math but i suspect rake graphs will start looking something like this, at least for FL:

(rake on y axis, pot size on x, the old step structure in dark colour and the new 'true percentage' in light orange)

i.e. a huge effective rake increase on smaller, much more frequent pots, and a rake decrease on bigger but much rarer pots

fu stars

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12-28-2011 , 12:38 PM

#109

Kraada

See our Commercial Software thread

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,489

If anybody wants to see what Weighted Contributed Rake looks like for them, a custom stat for PT3 that shows this value is available here. You'll want to compare it to the built in stat MGR. If MGR < WC Rake you'll do better under the new system - if it's the other way around, you'll do worse. Since VPPs are a straight multiplier based on these values, the percentage gain (or drop) will be the same.

So if WC Rake is 80% of MGR you'll get 80% of the VPPs under the new system you would have gotten under the old system due to playing style (as rake changes are for everyone across the board).

I hope this helps everyone better understand the new system.

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12-28-2011 , 12:38 PM

#110

ponnzi

banned

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 168

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonkDonkDonkDonk

Well I guess I won't be playing much next year.

I was planning in putting in 10x my usual volume next year but I'm not going to stand for a site that openly money grabs and has no consideration for the state of the games.

I stayed loyal at pokerstars because I thought they were different from all other poker sites, I guess I was wrong.

youre right they have no consideration for the state of the games
thats why they set up a system where a large portion of the site was filled with people playing 24 tables grinding out vpps basically teathered to their laptops
the games have been awful for years

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12-28-2011 , 12:38 PM

#111

PotLimit06

newbie

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 27

the milestones stays correct ?
i dont have PT full, can someone with PT post results using the custom WC stat ?

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12-28-2011 , 12:39 PM

#112

Alrighty Roo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 16,269

most of the 24 tabling nits can actually play when they want to. If chicagojoey wanted to he could destroy me playing LAG, instead he plays like 12/8 or something to get as high an hourly as possible. 2003 isn't coming back.

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12-28-2011 , 12:39 PM

#113

jspill

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 8,365

Quote:

Originally Posted by ant___z

Seems there is no minimum rake now

i suspect rake graphs will start looking something like this, at least for FL:

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerStars Steve

Rake percentages and caps are being set such that we expect a small overall decrease in site rake assuming that play remains the same. You can see the new rake tables at the bottom of this post.

i wouldn't be surprised if there's still a net rake increase even with changes to the caps and percentages, and this is a clever lie/money grab, or math fail on stars' part

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12-28-2011 , 12:39 PM

#114

MMD

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 6,553

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ponder

mmd 1kplus post in a few months has a lot of opinions that are all obviously wrong to anyone that spends as at least as much time educating themselves as spewing bs out their mouths

Yup all my opinions are wrong bull**** because you don't agree with them.

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12-28-2011 , 12:40 PM

#115

8Nilor

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,543

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMetetrown

God damn the 6max rake increase is really tilting me. Just **** off stars. Bunch of ******s with the way this whole thing was handled. Count me in for a sitout.

How much more is it and to what are you comparing it. How did fullring(50nl and 100nl)change?

Thanks cuz im not sure.

Was considering playing some 6max next year.... guess not?

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12-28-2011 , 12:41 PM

#116

punter11235

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8,210

And here is email I sent them:

Quote:

Hi,

I just learnt about rake changes. It ruin my plan for going for SNE,
something I invested almost 4months in by playing high volume on your site based on the promise you gave me in email quoted below.
I specifically asked about rake changes and you specifically said
dealt is going to be used. Instead you made a change which hurts high volume winning players significantly. Moreover you increased rake directly in my game (MSNL CAP).
I invested a lot of hours and money to learn a game to get SNE in
2012. I feel disappointed and lied to. You have my money now, no doubt but you lost high volume player and loyal customer. I am going to continue to play very small volume looking for management to sane up.
I ask you not to lie anymore to people. It's profitable for sure as my example shows but can't possibly good for you long term.

Regards,

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12-28-2011 , 12:42 PM

#117

TheMetetrown

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 2,287

Full ring probably won't be affected much but a lot of 6max hands are played 5 handed. They raised the cap from $2 to $3 (50% increase) on those hands. That's pretty brutal.

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12-28-2011 , 12:42 PM

#118

chavarie

adept

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,126

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMD

Yup all my opinions are wrong bull**** because you don't agree with them.

No, your opinions are really bull****.

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12-28-2011 , 12:43 PM

#119

ROM Amnesty

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 3,665

Quote:

Originally Posted by punter11235

I sent the following email to Poker Stars before switching to this site in September:

This the answer I received:

I invested significant amount of time and money (by not bumhunting other sites but learning a game to get SNE) raking in 300k VPIP in the process.
Now they say: "Hahahaha, we deceived you to play long hours in our games and now your money belong to us so you can go **** yourself".
Message taken, lesson learnt. I am still sad though because playing high volume is fun for me and bumhunting is boring. Stars will lose 150k$ rake from me. I hope more people join. Even if not sitout which is drastic action we can organize to play no more than say 6 tables with super strict, obnoxious table selection which will hurt them more than temporary sitout.

punter. Their response in the e-mail to you was simply reporting the changes to the 2011 program. They weren't commenting on potential 2012 changes.

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12-28-2011 , 12:45 PM

#120

MMD

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 6,553

Quote:

Originally Posted by chavarie

No, your opinions are really bull****.

I can't wait to try Stars again in 6months or so. Games should be much better after having been ruined by nits for the last few years.

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12-28-2011 , 12:46 PM

#121

starvingwriter82

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 7,793

Quote:

Originally Posted by punter11235

Any player who plays micros, that for sure. 6max guys, especially in 1/2, 2/4cap, 1/2 standard and 1/2, 2/4plo were just royally screwed with double rake increase (WC is one, cap increase is second, it was 2$ with 5players which happened quite often, now it's 3$).
I mean, they could at least introduce 4max games :-)

But yeah, playable micros are important, those players were killed before and I am happy for them that the game will probably be playable now.

This. As a six max player, 26% of my hands are played with five players at the table according to my HEM, and now all those hands are raked a dollar more.

Here's the basic breakdown:

Breakdown of hands:
2 Handed = 0.4% of hands (No rake change)
3 Handed = 1.5% (50% Increase)
4 Handed = 7.0% (25% Decrease)
5 Handed = 29.3% (50% Increase)
6 Handed = 61.9% (No rake change)

So for me, this is nothing but a rake hike, when I already play a game where even the best players are paying 3 times in rake (or more) than what they take home in profit.

Thanks a lot Pokerstars.

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12-28-2011 , 12:47 PM

#122

yougotG0T

adept

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 868

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponnzi

hahaha ***** break even 24 tabling nits

Extinct.

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12-28-2011 , 12:47 PM

#123

ponnzi

banned

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 168

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alrighty Roo

lol a few can most can't

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12-28-2011 , 12:47 PM

#124

dadude

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 5,176

when will .be results be out?

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12-28-2011 , 12:49 PM

#125

8Nilor

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,543

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMetetrown

Full ring probably won't be affected much but a lot of 6max hands are played 5 handed. They raised the cap from $2 to $3 (50% increase) on those hands. That's pretty brutal.

Good god...

If I get less rakeback/get raked more on stars next year I am leaving to play on another site. The games are too tough, will be tougher.... and more rake? That would be a lil much.

But I can't say for sure what will go down yet. Cuz it might balance itself out.

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