The best thing to do would be to either lower rake across the board to 4% or lower the requirements for SN+ by about 15%

Are you a ****ing idiot or what????
You are a ****ing joke man, you d'ont care if its you because you don't lose money maybe, thats how a fish should speak , but can you just think 1 minute or the many pokerplayer who live with just this vpp system? (i live because of this system too)

If you love playing poker and hate "nits" go play live and stop ****ing speaking non sense, we are here to win money and not to lose money , and whats outrageous is that pokerstar will win the money we lose.
So please stop speaking you fish.

wow, Stars managed to screw everyone and made it look like they're doing everyone a favor.

lol at people ranting about "24 folders" - if you don't suck those are/were the players you should be making money of -_-

TBH, I'm fine with WC change and no rake change.
Even though I'm LAG, I will lose some, but I would lose much more with announced rake change.

It's not ideal but better than it was few hours ago.
For me that is, ofc.

Sorry, Obviously they should listen to their consumers but you're post way off base. It is the reason billion dollar companies do thorough market research, the market research should inform them before hand of how their consumers will react to a product change etc, they should be listening to the customer base during this process... Not as an afterthought. It is because stars has being so reactive in their handling that they have managed to make what should be a simple process a total farce and appear at a minimum unprofessional and somewhere along the line incompetent.

if you read this -> hypers pls ffs!

How about this suggestion Steve?
How about paying us interest for holding the $100 million + of players money that you hold on our behalf?
Instead of stealing more money off of us - start paying each of us - a rolling overnight money market rate for the 10k+ that each of us has on your site.
Consider it a small insurance policy!

I should clarify that i understand why stars have made the changes they've made. It obviously makes sense for them. They've just handled themselves badly from the start of the process though.

Wait a second. I was under the assumption that the switch to True rake and the rake changes were the mitigating factors you were going to implement to reduce the damage of losing VPPs.

Can you confirm that my calculations below are correct and that anyone that open raises to a standard 3bb+ at tables with 6+ players seated would have seen rake reductions using the 4.5% + True rake at 50NL+?

50NL


100NL


200NL


I thought the issues being raised were:

• 5 seated rake increase
• Loss of VPPs going to WC

So now you're just going to remove the mitigating factor and give full ring players an even worse deal to solve a terrible 6max deal? Why don't you just address the actual 6max 5 seated problem instead of scrapping all the rake changes? If the 5 seated rake increase wasn't there am I correct that we would be seeing a rake reduction of 8-10% due to using true rake calculations and the lower rake %?

If that is true, just get rid of the 5 seated rake increase as a starting point. Why does it have to be all or nothing?

Assuming I'm going to take a 20% VPP hit but were to receive an 8% rake reduction:

• 2011 Dealt: 40/100 = 40% rb
• 2012 WC with true rake and the rake changes: (40*0.8)/(100*0.92) = 32/92 or effectively 35% compared to 2011.
• 2012 WC without true rake or the rake changes: (40*0.8)/100 = 32/92 or effectively 32% compared to 2011.

* Can someone please link me to a post explaining exactly how they figure true rake increases rake or how my calculations are wrong if that is the case and I missed that post somewhere?

If I'm not mistaken, this is now seriously ****ed up. How the hell did we end up losing even more than we were going to?

Steve, please reconsider. Either scrap all, and I mean all changes, including the switch to WC, or keep the mitigating factors while addressing the appropriate problems.

So your a winning poker player because of the VPP system. Well that just about sums you up then doesnt it. Cant survive without the VPP system rewarding folding. Partys over Son go do something else instead.

The current system needed modifiying thats the point. Just not at the expense of all players and to the benefit of Stars themselves. You still get your VPPs just not for folding 90% of hands over and over. System wasnt fair before and allowed some people, who i agree were willing to put in a lot of time and effort, to benefit from not really playing poker.

This was so obviously planned for.

By "listening to players and giving up on rake changes" they openly admitted they tried to deceive us by "lowering the rake" so we won't complain about WC and now reverted to the old "higher" rake, but kept the WC. And some people are happy now?

In reality, after "listening to player input" they made things even worse for us. Amazing.

Well played.

So what? that doesnt mean they should get the same ***** rakeback as a guy that play loose

Here's how it happened.

Stars : we need to change to WC. It's becoming the industry standard and some of our nittiest SNE's are earning close to 100% rb.
Steve : I don't think that'll go down well. I'll hint to a change in the SNE thread and we'll see how they react.
Regs : rabble rabble rabble.
Steve : I told you they wouldn't like it.
Stars : hmmm, how about we delay the announcement and work out a rake reduction to soften the blow.

Steve announces everything.

Regs : omg the rake increase! Rabble rabble rabble.
Steve : lol stars, they don't like the changes in rake!
Stars : but that was supposed to be a good thing. Just cancel the rake reduction and tell them it's a result of customer feedback.
Steve : lol
Stars : rofl $€$$$$

That went well for us.

My god you just think about yourself man , you are a good idiot ...
What i am angry at is they change the system of vpp atribution and pokerstars will win more money because us regular will have less money.
And why is this a bad way of playing , to fold all our hand and play only monster ? uhh can you tell me ? whats good poker? So shut up you damn fish because now many people like me don't know how they will live without this system.
And even if the system change there should be something in compensation, but now its just all in the pokect of pokerstar , man just open your fish eyes.

Please explain.

How on earth can they be good for a losing player and not a winning player?

The way I see it is that it will cause players to play more so the more skilled player will ultimately win.

It was an huge rake increase for 200nl+ fwiw. Stars would have benefit more from the new system, not the current one.

Why all this BS with WC? Give us WTA and wtf cares what some moron who lost the pot feels? Next time I'm gonna be the moron who loses the pot and I won't whine about not being given some BS compensation in FPPs, coz I don't ****ing care, stop this crap for ****'s sake!

Just upgrade the VPP/$ rake to 6 and everybody will be happy Stars!

Nits are gonna nit. The rake increase was disgusting if true (havent run the numbers) but WC > dealt for the state of the games and fairness. Start opening 107s u nits.

Exactly what I imagined as well. I felt happy when the rake increase was cancelled but then realized Stars was just freerolling on that anyway.

When I made calculations 1 month ago stay in stars NL100 FR or play NL100 SH on another sites with good RB(being I SN 400kVPP) the difference was really close and I decided 2 stay playing FR in stars cuz its easyer and means no change.

Aniway if this changes are done I will have a solid reason to play in another poker sites with better deal and I think all FR regs are thinking the same write now. Do you really want it to happen?¿

It's up to you.

Bye!

6x vpp please stars

thisssssssss