In 2013 we will have anonymous tables .

They'll do anything to satisfy their hard working customers.

The changes are good for a loose losing player. The changes are bad for a loose winning player. The changes are terri-bad for everyone else.

I for one will not be happy. This would change nothing for full ring. I suggest lowering VIP requirements by at least 10%

I have always been a strong supporter of Stars and against other sites or networks because of the instability, cash out issues, bots, etc.

Unless they announce a major change (increase VPPs or lower caps) I am going to withdraw and try out the safest site with good RB that I can find.

In the suggestion thread the most agreed upon change so far is raise to 6VPP, but I think one of the biggest problems is that all limits from .25/.50 NL to 50/100NL all have the same $3 per hand cap.

This would be Stars.

iPoker is full of bots, OnGame has crap RB and crap software, Entraction/888 has no traffic and Microgaming, well, just LOL.

Stars or Party are the only 2 (limited) options for the grinders, and even with these changes Stars > Party.

Are there some graphs/spreadsheets how WC affected different players on FullTilt (ie 20/18 nit vs 26/22 etc) ?

Hi guys,

I have a simple solution. Add $2500 to the 500k VPP milestone and $5000 to the 1mil SNE milestone. (Adjust the exact figures to whatever you think you are being "screwed out of" by each limit, the point is to go after the milestones rather than the system). My reasoning:

1) Stars has a history of sticking with changes they initially release for at least a trial period. We are extremely unlikely to get them to reverse this in under 6 months. We have to look for a compromise that the high volume grinders can plan their year towards.

2) There are only around 300 SNE on Stars, and so adding an extra bonus to these players to compensate for the lost rewards will have a negligible effect on Stars' bottom line. They would probably make it back within 30 minutes(!)

3) Most of the other players who are upset by this are semi-high volume grinders who were hoping for a new VIP level at 500k. Stars has resolutely refused to introduce this, but adding a substantial bonus at 500k would be a way of appeasing these very loyal (and strident) customers.

Please try and focus on solutions other than simple boycotts and asking for reversal of company decisions. It is far easier for a company to introduce a "new reward" than to be seen backing down and admitting they were planning to "screw their customers"!

FULL DISCLOSURE: Going for SNE myself in 2012.

guys like i said before, we should calculate first what this ACTUALLY means.
For example things i found out to be true if you play a mix of 6max and fullring 100nl on stars:

ONLY !!! 1.2% !!!of hands are both 5 handed AND raked between 2-3$. (so that means you dont even lose 1$ on all those hands since some of them are raked 2 which actually nets you 7,75cents)
gains
.1 % of hands are 4 handed so you will gain a little bit back of those

for smaller pots under 5 dollar the new rake actually increases because of the incremental rule vs fixed %. So stakes of 50nl and lower will problaby have a lot of increase in actual rake due this.

the vast majority of pots though at 100nl are between 5$ and 20$

here are just some fact to consider

Don't really play cash but read most of this thread anyway.

Pretty pathetic behavior from the "best" poker site out there imo.

Also zero announcements / changes for your MTT/SNG grinders is pretty tilting..

Hyper buyin levels $1.50 - $7 - $30.. laughable

As has been mentioned above I'd like to know where everybody(supposedly) is going to go to play.

All other sites I know of have similar cr@p rake system or worse,no games and dreadful software,basically why we all play at Stars in the first place.

Rake is the price you pay for playing......it just went up,so does fuel,food,tax,rent anything you'd like to think of.

Simple answer if you dont like the price dont pay,not sure I will yet,but thats how I see it.

Oh yea and please let me know where we are all supposed to go instead,thx

2012, the end is near

nvm

Guess I'm going to play 7$ hypers and rake ~90$ a day instead of 600+ playing CAP.

Rake is too high across the board yes.
However plenty of games at Ongame iPoker and Party, probably other sites too depending on your stakes.
Software, yeah stars maybe best but nothing you cant live with elsewhere.

The key advantage of other sites is that if you do your homework many of the sites have affiliates offering great deals. Ask around, don't take the standard offers and you will get 45-65% on most sites without putting in massive volume.


This is the key, stars vip program is, was and always has been the worst deal out there by far for anyone except SNE (and SNE types could probably get 70% flat elsewhere anyway).

^ yes, but stars graphics, software, trustworthiness and cashouts has (and still is) always been that much better that it makes up for it. I've got upto 70% on Ipoker but the fact im unable to play more than 6-8 tables there before things start crashing makes it worthless.

I, as with everyone else, am not happy with the obvious money grab by stars.

lol at boycotting. you will all be back in no time. stop crying about a company wanting to make $ when they have lost a substantial amount of customers post bf. its a captial world, get used to it and stop crying like babies.

cake poker

Hey guys screw stars! Full tilt is this way ----> FOLLOW ME!

€ rake is increased as well right? Just noticed it is only €2 now for 6handed play.

Thank you all for taking the time to express your opinion about the recently announced changes to ring game rake on PokerStars.com for 2012.

As a direct result of player input, we are cancelling the planned rake changes that were to be implemented in early January 2012. We will still use the incremental method to calculate rake instead of true percentage rake. Rake caps and percentages will remain exactly as they are today.

I would like to add a few comments:

The current rake at PokerStars is the lowest by far among all major poker sites.

We are confident that the planned rake changes would have resulted in a further overall decrease in ring game rake site wide, and a decrease for a majority of players.

There has been much inaccurate information spread about the impact of the changes. As an example, the changes would not have resulted in a 50% increase in rake for 5-handed play. While there would have been an increase in average rake for 5-handed play at NL tables with stakes of $0.25/$0.50 and higher, it would be far less than 50% (for stakes up to $0.10/$0.25 there was either no change or reduction in caps for 5-handed play). Most hands do not reach the cap and thus would not be affected. The rake for many hands dealt to 5 players would actually be lower at many stakes due to the lower rake percentage (4.5% reduced from 5%). If players review rake at other online poker rooms, they will discover that it is the standard for the rake caps to be the same when 5 or more players are dealt into a hand. PokerStars has been the one notable exception to this system.

In summary we still believe that the proposed rake system taken as a whole would result in a more balanced and fair rake system for players. However, given that players have responded so negatively to this change, which also has a cost to PokerStars due to the reduced rake, we felt that the best course of action is to cancel the change.

The change to the Weighted Contributed method of awarding VPPs will remain as announced.

See guys, they do listen!

some good news

Wow, thanks for listening Steve (atlhough I am inclined to believe you that the changes could have had some positive outcome).

So nothing changes rakewise, but VPP distribution method will change?

Wouldn't that still bring a considerable reduction in effective RB?

I love you

while there might have been a decrease at 50nl for example, midstakes 5handed would have been massively affected

other rake caps changes were acceptable, it was just the 5 handed that was wrong imo