is there any way to contact steve per emaiL?

What?

Support@pokerstars.com
Subject: to Steve

they will forward the email to him

The reality is 95% of people bitching in this thread, threatening to change sites / reduce play, will do sod all in light of these changes. Stars knows this, in the western world we are terribly bad consumers. Seems like another reason the chinese need to get online playing poker in their droves. Yes obviously juicier games is the main reason but also they will sure as hell make the sites fight tooth and nail for their business. Rather than come on 2+2, complain like little bitches and carry on regardless.

maybe because hes not actually down 60k....if he paid approx 130k in rake hes actually still up 70k.... so stars gives him 43k for being elite (approx numbers as im glancing at the graph) as a tax on his total winnings.... your not paying him stars is... you see???

EDIT...punter beat me to it

A grinder is like a whore working for an abusive pimp. Dislike the whore if you wish. I prefer to identify the pimp and despise him.

i am paying this guy with the rake i pay. and so does everyone else, no matter the stakes. still waiting for someone to enlighten me why?

This post and the one a few up sum up exactly why the Stars system needed changed.

Your bb/100 should not be inclusive of rakeback.

I get 50% rb where I play. I don't ever say that I have won that money. That money is a bonus. If I have lost $20k I say I have lost $20k. I don't say oh but I made $20k in rb this year so I am breakeven.

I've never grinded cash for any significant period of time. For the short time I got to play poker full time I was playing SNGs.

That said, I can't believe some people buy the logic you can make games more profitable by reducing rewards.

My money from rakeback spends just like the money I actually "won".

After all this whats the chances of ft starting back up in the next few months using the dealt method.

saying the rake is too high already is completely different than saying you are being screwed
if you are right and stars rake is too high then they will go under
but they are making money hand over fist so basic economics tells us it isnt too high

paying them 10K+ a month too use their software is true for many people. And you get a lot in return for this. people can make a damb good living sitting on their ass clicking buttons in their living room. If it wasnt worth paying them this much people wouldnt be doing it.

i would love to see rakeback switched to wta and tables limited to 4-6 per player
of course if this happened most people on here would bitch that they cant play 24 (and with it pay more rake)

Not a chance in hell. If they did then I would commit suicide.

Im glad Stars have done something like this ..

I hope player power has an effect or some other site / network grabs the bull by the horn and seizes the chance to challenge Stars and offers a better alternative for the poker player.

I really hope Stars falls flat on its face ... cannot stand the place ..

You can stick that in your pipe PokerStars Steve .. hope you choke on it.

if you lose 20k at the tables and get 20k in rakeback you are break even

if you lose 20k at the tables and get 100k in rakeback you are up 80k

your bank account does not differenciate between table winnings and rakeback money.

Poker isn't about having a high bb/100, it's about winning money, because money is the thing that you can actually exchange for goods and services.

Is someone deliberately trying to sabotage stars? They've made some really questionable decisions over the last few months.

So following your logic if you are paying any rake at all you are getting screwed?

People are (and still will be) getting credit for paying rake they never actually paid and people like you have no problem with this. I dont care if joe the fish is getting screwed out of 45 cents so you can get an extra ten grand- hes still being screwed. Say your pissed off bc your benefits are going down 12 pct or whatever but don't act like stars is robbing you.

A lot of people seems not to grasp what rake and rakeback are.

Well, there goes a crash course to help to stop ******ed posts:



RAKE

Everyone pays rake "up front" to the site.

Rake is taken from the pot, the winner is the one paying the rake.

No one else is paying rake other than the winner of the hand since those others had nothing to won at that point: they lost exactly the same amount they would if rake do not exist.

Overall, since everyone win hands, everyone pays rake.

Rake goes from the players to the site, obviously!


RAKEBACK

Rakeback its the amount that the site gives back to the players from the rake they take. How they do it, it varies. This topic deals with change with the process as a matter of fact.

Rakeback goes from the site to the player.

Unless someone is getting more in rakeback than the rake he pays to the site up front (while playing poker at the tables and winning hands) no one is leeching no one cause they have a "higher rakeback", even if the method is "dealt".

The method doesnt matter: while rakeback is less than rake payed up front, the effective rake goes from the player to the site. He is the one paying to the site, not the other way around neither are the other players "paying him".




If and only if someone is getting more in rakeback than what they payed in rake on the pots they won, we can talk about someone "leeching" others (or others "paying him rake").

TheJacob i agree with you

MMD if you pay 40k in rake and are still up 20k you won 60k total...but with RB you get a rebate to make you get say 38k of your winnings....how can you disagree with RB?? its winnings that are taxed

its like saying of i dont count benefits from the government as earnings as i paid this money in tax when spending it in a shop....its your money...love the rebate...love the RAKEBACK

http://www.facebook.com/pages/PokerS...67683496628469

LET US ALL UNITE AND STAND TOGETHER AGAINST THESE LUDICROUS POKERSTARS CHANGES!!

This will probably get lost in the flood of whining, but just in case...

Look at the amount you would have won if there was no rake. That tells how good you are at poker.

If someone wins 1 BB/100 after rake, but rake works out to about 7 BB/100, then that player is better than the opponents by 8 BB/100.

However, let's say you are only better than your opponents by 6.5 BB/100 instead of 8 BB/100. Because of rake that changes you from a winning player to a losing player, even though it's relatively not that much of a difference. Similarly, if the rake schedule changed it would turn winning players into losing players.

Rakeback is just a factor of the rake really. They take 7 BB/100 off you and give you back 2 BB/100 or whatever. Your figures will be the same as if there was 5 BB/100 rake and no rakeback. I think it is sensible to consider 'effective rake' as the combination of rake plus rakeback.

This is even more pronounced for split-pot games, at 10c/25c PLO8 you will find yourself paying 15-20 BB/100 in rake.

another thing thats comical is people talking about whats best for the game
allowing 24 tablers and tons of software is horrendous for the game
i think stars business model is great for the short term (people playing crazy hours, ,cant miss any time,playing close to break even poker) but awful in the long run for game quality.However much like the poker sites, very few people care about the long term health of the games, they just want to make as much money as possible now.

they are robbing us... all rake is robbing...in my home games we dont charge rake... if i did anyone i know would be like WTF?!

rake is robbery..like tax....

you pay $500-2k for a laptop

you pay $100k or more for a home

you pay $200? for the latest windows

you pay $90 for hold em manager

$50ish for table ninja

yet you pay $200k to use a poker program....(minus our ever diminishing RB)

of course they are leeching, its not even debatable
they are getting a rebate on rake they never actually paid

PokerStars:

How about: Remove Rakeback completly and lower the rake and bring in WTA for the fun. You heard it, remove the rakeback bring down the rake to an acceptable level.

If Stars would pull that off I'd be over the moon. Just dreamin'

I'm really wondering if the manager at Stars has some kind of brain malfunction.