Haven't read this in a while, and I'm assuming nothing has changed. Basically lol @ PokerStars

My point is: why get rid of the 20-50BB tables now when they seem to be highly popular and people got used to them?

I don’t really pick any time. I have just been around at different stakes and different games (NL and PLO) the last weeks, and ended up open shoving for some hours yesterday at NL FR 0,5-1,0, and then started to play some “normal poker“ after I got tired of it.

I am surprised there are so many tables running. I was a regular in the NL 100 games during 2008 and I don’t remember it was so many tables that time (20-100NL was it then).

Shall PS get rid of the 20-50BB tables because a very tiny minority of winning fulltstack players might move to some other places (would that be bad for the games by the way?) which tables reportedly are not that good either? My anecdotic view is that NL 0,5-1,0 are about the same when it comes to quality as 2 years ago. Maybe 20-50BB made them a bit better? I don’t know. The regulars should know, but I got that feeling anyway. Even I might be able to break even at those tables - oh, maybe not, but not lose too much would be ok. Will give it a try anyway.

Also, I want to say that it's not that much shoving preflop as I did expect (besides my shoving sessions yesterday). Of course there are quite a bit, but not like every hand or something like that. But there are action which is what poker tables need.

They wouldn't be emailing surveys - and asking for emails, posts from 2p2 members, if they weren't studying some impact of the game.

"**** the integrity of the game" can't believe a shortstacker sais this!.Whilst we do need to consider what rec players(potential new regs) want,to say such a thing about poker and the way its played is wrong.

Can't believe stars actually cares about these people,its just so wrong.

for any europeans thinking about leaving stars,Party poker has virtually no 20-40bb tables running and bonus and points equates to 32% rakeback.
KEEP YOUR SHORTSTACKERS STARS,I THINK YOU MAKE A NICE COUPLE!

We had a huge number of 20-100 tables running as well right before the change on 100NL on high traffic times like Sunday evening,in addition to the 50-100 tables.
I can only guess,but i dont think there are more tables running overall now at this limit.
This is because hundreds of fullstacks left and hundreds of shortstacks joined.
I can only repeat, this is an extremely risky change for Stars,being dependant on much more shorties for the cash games to run smooth.

For me,100 NL and 200NL games on FTP are significicant better than 50-100bb on stars has been before the change.Since 40-100 tables are even more terrible,there is no doubt that full tilt has much better games offered for this limit.
Its some fairy tale that probably some of the shortstack guys have invented.
Same goes with the "tiny minority of winning fullstack players".
You know,the real winners can still win on stars.
Its much more the breakeven fullstack players and the casual fullstack players that left and will leave.
E.g. i know for a fact 8 casual players,some winning some losing players,that left Stars in the last days for FTP,Party or Cake.

The only reason why Stars has not been completely crushed is their SNE program where you can get rakeback above 50%. Many players either have no rakeback on FTP or only have 28%. If FTP ever wakes the **** up and creates a high volume rakeback scheme, the Stars 40-100bb games will be completely dead. Those games are being kept alive by the SNE grinders.

Moving to Party/FTP today, gg Stars.

fwiw as a result of this I moved half of my online bankroll to Full Tilt after playing exclusively at Pokerstars since Party Poker pulled out. This is the first year since 2008 I will not be playing for/maintaining supernova at Pokerstars.


Just leaving some feedback.

don;t worry about the people leaving stars. I will shoot for 500k more vpps. That has to count for at least 25 of these guys

lol...I'm sure this isn't a concern at all.

Stars exec #1: Crap, we've lost a TON of our business with these changes. All the feedback we're getting says everyone hates these new structures. We gotta do something!

Stars exec #2: Woah! Hang on a second. Just relax ... Mrdurdenptp said that HE will go for 500k more vpps. We'll be just fine the way things are.

Stars exec #1: Oh thank goodness. We're saved.


Sorry, all in good fun - couldn't resist

I play PLO8 and at 10c/25c and virtually the only games running now are 6 max 20-50bb. Does this mean they are popular??

Probably not nearly everyone buys in for the full 50bb and once doubled up sticks at the table. There are people sat with 300bb+. Personally I hate them, but since Rush PLO8 at 25/50c seems to have taken a lot of the normal traffic there maybe I should check out Party.

Stars exec #1: Business is booming!

Stars exec #2: But there's a thread on 2+2 where tens and tens of people say they're done with our site!

Stars exec #1: Oh no! We're doomed!

All in a good fun, as well. And of course the usual caveat that I don't know if business is booming or not. I just don't think Stars is using this thread to answer that question themselves.

I'm pretty sure they're using actual data, not Intertube whining.

Just cashed out most of my roll. I'm currently platinum but will not be in July unless the structures change. I will play 841 more VPPs in june for my next milestone and play 3 more sunday millions and probably some steps with my remaining fpps, but I prefer to spend my annual 30k in rake on a site that doesn't treat me like ****, tyvm.

They just had a software update today - anyone know what that is about?

Yeah, I get it, ratholers think that these games are better for Stars and think they make Stars more money or at least say they think they make stars more money. No surprise there.

Fullstackers actually play both games so we can actually see what the 40bb to 100bb games are like because we play them. Most ratholers don't play them because they buy-in short, shove, and leave if they win. We actually see what the 50bb max games are like. We had to play them to play with fish again. We actually move our money and play @Tilt and back up our words with action. So we can actually SEE the money Stars isn't getting but would otherwise.

A ratholer continuing to play push/shove poker and running away like a little girl as soon as he wins isn't really going to notice any of that. I think we fullstackers have a more accurate pulse on what is going on.

Actually, you don't get it. I'm not making any claims about the state of Stars business. I'm only saying it's silly that you keep making such claims.

I have no idea whether they consider the changes a success, business-wise, or not. Only Stars knows, and they're not saying. I do believe, however, that if they consider the changes a failure, then more changes will be forthcoming.

What VIP level are you? Supernova on track for 300k
Have you noticed the changes? Yes.
Do you like the changes or do you prefer they way it was? Love the changes
What have you been playing since the changes? 100nl 40-100 with way better table selection than the 20-100 and 50-100 prior
How many bb so you usually buy in for? 100bb
Would like to see only 50-100bb and 100-250bb tables? yes
Would you like to see only 20-100bb tables? absolutely not
Would you like to see only 35-100bb tables? yes
Would you play 20bb cap games (explains what they are)? no

List your order of preference?
I want the old tables 4
I like the new tables 3
I want 35-100 bb tables only 1
I want only 40-100bb and 100-250bb tables 2

fwiw getting rid of the 20-50 completely is ideal but the current changes are ridiculously good compared to not making any changes.

I second this exactly as is

No doubt

That would be me.

It looks to me like tilt is gearing towards quality and not quantity. Is it also coincidence that tilt has been improving the software? Now if they can just improve the support staff.

I really do think there is one other issue that has not been brought up enough in this whole debate

I don't see why low and micro stakes should have the same structures as high stakes

basically, at the levels I play, most of the business is about bringing in more low stakes recreational players that are typically playing for some light fun or new to the game. Having a 20-50BB game at that level is different than having it at $5/$10 no limit IMO.

Seems to me that the 20-50 game is not a problem at 100NL and below for sure. It might not be an issue at 200NL. These are low stakes games that are funz and gigglez. At higher levels, one can be concerned about the integrity of the game.