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Pokerrrr 2 (by PT.farm) Pokerrrr 2 (by PT.farm)

04-30-2020 , 07:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckbox eric
That's weird because you can definitely export *something* - is it not actually the hand history?

I believe the only thing you can currently export is the table results (e.g. player names and profit/loss amounts, or finishing order for tournaments).
There is no export function on the Hand History screen - hoping they add it.
Pokerrrr 2 (by PT.farm) Quote
05-03-2020 , 02:28 PM
I was searching on these forums for a discussion on this App and wanted to quote some of the comments thus far as my post is going to be directly related to these comments.

Preface the post that about 20 guys I personally know from high school/college and work are in a large group text. We try to get SNGs going every night. For the most part we consistently get 6-9 players for SNGs. I've been playing with this group for the past 2 weeks. We run $25 to $100 SNGs nothing big. Over the past two weeks I have won over $1,000 from the group. I am a better player than most all of them. The reason I wanted to preface my post, was because it's easy for a "losing player" to complain about the legitimacy of an App or online site, but if you're consistently winning why would you complain?? In my case, I truly believe there is something up with the software and I think I might have it pinned down based on my experiences with the hands and watching these SNGs start to finish. I am not a programming expert and have not dissected this App to discover any issues with the coding. This is my personal belief based on experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
I'm starting to debate the legitimacy of the hosts on this app. I'm only in two clubs, and I know the people and thought I trusted them, but the play lately has me questioning them.

Is there a way for the host to set players up? I guess they can work together on specific hands, but how much control does a host have over what happens in his games?

I know, I know, "online poker is rigged." Seriously, though, I know two other players in these games who have quit because of the same issues. I just want to know what's possible. PM me if you don't want the world to know.
From my experience, the "Host" holds no special power other than to promote or kick people from the group. The one thing that is clearly and easily exploitable is the ability for the players to sit at the table and work together. You can do that on any site/app, but when your group is small and limited and you can control the games you get into you can easily exploit that. In my case, I don't worry about that since I've been winning. If I start to consistently lose, I will probably quit the App altogether.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Standard Station
Honestly of all online poker sites/apps this app stands out as fishy. Theres something just not right here. I'm sure some clubs are fine, but I do think theres some unscrupulous activity going on. PM me if you want to discuss further
I as well as many others agree with you. Something doesn't feel right about the App and it's difficult to pinpoint. I agree, some clubs are unscrupulous, which is why I chose to only play with my friends who I personally know. More about the fishiness of the App below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Movado
A group of regular players from our home game started playing on the pokerrr2 app. After reading the reviews I was skeptical. After watching 14 hours of play on the app, I can confirm that the app is not right. In the first 200 hands, I witnessed a 2 card royal flush, (4) poker pair quads and (1) 1 card quads. Each night there are multiple poker pair quads shown and even a 2 card straight flush. I started tracking the hands in a spreadsheet and between 23-26% of the time, the flop would be paired. It is my opinion that the app is creating big hands for “entertainment.”
Players who I have played with for 5 years almost weekly 1/2 NL rarely winning and if they did book a win it was for $100 or less are winning $1200-1600 a week playing .50/1 or 1/2 within the same group. Players who NEVER buy in for the max are all the sudden now buying in for the max.
Play at your own risk.
You have identified what I have experienced. Although I have only seen 1 royal flush in the past week and it was a 1 card royal. I too believe the App is programmed to facilitate confrontations to expedite the length of play. The reason the developers would do this would be to eat up the "gold bars" that you have to pay to start your own game. That way they can entice you to purchase more gold bars from them and that's how they make their money.

I have seen more Top Tops vs Sets in the past two weeks than I have seen in entire year playing live poker. During this pandemic I have also been playing on Poker Stars and it's quite obvious the difference between Pokerrrr 2 and PS. The all ins with full houses vs. flushes or set over set of sets vs top top etc., occur significantly less frequently than on this App.

It strikes me as odd that there hasn't been more posted about the sketchiness of this App since most people are quarantined and relegated to playing online poker. If you have not played Pokerrrr2 I suggest you get a group of friends and run a few SNGs and you will understand exactly what many have echoed. There's something up and I believe it has to do with forcing confrontations to expedite the length of play. I don't know how an "RNG" can be rigged to do that though as I'm not a programmer. My only thought would be that maybe the RNG somehow reduces the deck in certain situations to remove "blanks". But idk.

I'd like to hear more people's experience, because I'd like to think that it's not "rigged" but it certainly feels that way when compared to other online sites. I understand suck-outs happen, but 6-handed boat over boat / 3 way all ins with top top and set over sets don't happen very often, but they seem to happen every game.
Pokerrrr 2 (by PT.farm) Quote
05-03-2020 , 11:23 PM
All I have seen are random anecdotes such as your post.
Nobody has hard data.

The app seems normal to me. I have been playing with a group of friends, similar to you. Mix of tournaments and cash games. I've seen some big hands, but nothing of the level of frequency as you mention. The usual winners from our live play are also the usual winners on the app. I have played around 3000 hands in 6 weeks.

Both apps a re GLI certified.
https://access.gaminglabs.com/certificate/index?i=305
Based on this standard.
https://gaminglabs.com/gli-standards...ms-v2-0-final/
I don't know if its possible to get more detail on ther certification, but that may help to understand the RNG piece or their cert.
Pokerrrr 2 (by PT.farm) Quote
05-04-2020 , 12:13 PM
pokerbeastsu: What you described is exactly what I've experienced. I have won about $6,000 over the past few weeks, so I'm not one of those complaining because I'm losing I play in three clubs and know many of the players and I know most of the hosts well. In NLHE, the number of "bad beats" is amazing.

The number of "good" hands per deal is unreal. I play a lot of PLO, which I know has much more variance, but in less than an hour of heads up play, I saw four times where the nut flush was beaten by a full house on the river, three pair was beaten by bottom set (the three pair was one of the set cards), the nut straight with redraws to the nut flush beaten by a full house on the river, and the nut straight beaten by a nut flush -- and those are the ones I can remember. This is heads up in a relatively short period of time.

I have played PLO for 10+ hours straight live multiple times and never seen so many big beats.

I am going to keep playing because it's fun and I'm making money, but I have completely changed my playing style to adapt to this app.
Pokerrrr 2 (by PT.farm) Quote
05-04-2020 , 11:11 PM
More interesting anecdotes. I guess we'll never know for sure unless someone can run simulations or get more info on how their RNG is configured. Is the GLI certification organization not reputable? Can they not be trusted?
Pokerrrr 2 (by PT.farm) Quote
05-05-2020 , 09:55 AM
I will say that out of the three groups I play in, one seems worse than the others. Maybe they are just worse players and will call with draws, bottom pair, etc.?

I have started playing a little loser with my draws, etc. Not betting or gii, but calling a little lighter. Amazing how often they hit.
Pokerrrr 2 (by PT.farm) Quote
05-06-2020 , 09:39 PM
Came here looking for information, all I found was a bunch of pointless tin foil hat ****
Pokerrrr 2 (by PT.farm) Quote
05-07-2020 , 06:53 AM
Has anyone figured out a way to get a hud working on here?
Pokerrrr 2 (by PT.farm) Quote
05-07-2020 , 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace Jackoff
Came here looking for information, all I found was a bunch of pointless tin foil hat ****
All we can do is tell you our experiences. I doubt the programmers or whomever they are will join in on this discussion. Play with a group you know well for a while, and then let us know what you think.
Pokerrrr 2 (by PT.farm) Quote
05-08-2020 , 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
All we can do is tell you our experiences. I doubt the programmers or whomever they are will join in on this discussion. Play with a group you know well for a while, and then let us know what you think.
I'm not tech savy enough to do this, but is there a way to examine the code of the app and test the RNG against a non-bias RNG. I agree these are all anecdotes but that's all we have. Anyone who plays poker regularly (online or live) knows that something is up with this app.

I concurrently play on Pokerstars and it's not even close to the types of beats, hands made and setups (meaning KK running into AA at late stages of the SNGs). My friend equates the occurrences to a "final destination" phenomenon.

I wish I had hard evidence of something I just don't. I would encourage skeptics to play and form their own opinions. When you play you know something is up, but you can't put your finger on it. It actually changes the way I play these SNGs. I fold hands that I should never fold (we play turbos so the blinds get up high real fast) because I feel like I'm being setup for the loss.
Pokerrrr 2 (by PT.farm) Quote
05-08-2020 , 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevis
More interesting anecdotes. I guess we'll never know for sure unless someone can run simulations or get more info on how their RNG is configured. Is the GLI certification organization not reputable? Can they not be trusted?
Sure they can be trusted, but they themselves are not certifying the application. They are certifying the RNG they "tested" at the time of issuance. It comes straight from the horses mouth. Also side note on GLI, they have been whacked with fines by the NGC for issuing certifications before the actual final product was completed.

Text From GLI's Website on the Pokerrr2 RNG
Quote:
The PT. Farm Poker RNG was successfully evaluated against the RNG-specific requirements of the following technical standards: GLI-19 – V2.0 Interactive Gaming Systems.

Random Number Generator (RNG) 9/25/2018 PASS

The Certificate was issued on 10/4/2018 and is valid until 10/4/2022.
Gaming Laboratories International, LLC (GLI) is a fully independent and accredited testing laboratory (ISO/IEC 17025) and product certification body (ISO/IEC 17065) contracted by gaming industry operators and software and hardware suppliers to perform third-party testing, auditing and certification services. Working on behalf of gaming authorities, GLI verifies technical compliance with the standard(s) and/or jurisdictional regulation(s) adopted by the gaming authorities. Should you have questions or concerns we encourage you to contact the relevant gaming authority.

Under no circumstances may this Certificate of Integrity be used to represent formal approval of the product(s) listed or imply any endorsement or warranty regarding the functionality, quality or performance of the product(s) listed and no person or party shall state or imply anything to the contrary. This certificate signifies that the product(s) listed has been evaluated to applicable standards and/or jurisdictional regulation(s). A detailed formal report for the product(s) listed above was issued to the proprietary owner of the product or duly authorized user on the date listed and contains specific product information and evaluation results.

The jurisdiction of the App is TAIWAN. Who knows what their deal is. Not to mention that the APP was released way before 2018, so there's a reason they went and sought certification. They clearly want to rely on GLI's reputation. Something is not right.

One of the reviews the Developer actually responded. This is from August 2018 BEFORE certification.

Quote:
Atlswift 08/14/2018
Rigged for action
App works great. Nice way to organize games with friends. However, the algorithm is designed for action. I’ve seen 10 straight flushes and a royal flush in 2 weeks. More 4 of a kind then I can count. You would never see this amount of top hands on a regular deck being shuffled randomly so beware of that.

Developer Response,
Hi Atlswift. The deck gets shuffled 100% random order, and the cards get draw out in that order. The shuffling mechanism won't recognise poker hands, so it won't be possible to create stronger or weaker poker hands. Just a note, playing through an application can be 3 times faster paced than real life. As a result, hands will come up with more frequently across 2 weeks. Best, Pokerrrr team.
Any programmers know whether the bolded statement from the developer is true?
Pokerrrr 2 (by PT.farm) Quote
05-09-2020 , 01:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
pokerbeastsu: What you described is exactly what I've experienced. I have won about $6,000 over the past few weeks, so I'm not one of those complaining because I'm losing I play in three clubs and know many of the players and I know most of the hosts well. In NLHE, the number of "bad beats" is amazing.

The number of "good" hands per deal is unreal. I play a lot of PLO, which I know has much more variance, but in less than an hour of heads up play, I saw four times where the nut flush was beaten by a full house on the river, three pair was beaten by bottom set (the three pair was one of the set cards), the nut straight with redraws to the nut flush beaten by a full house on the river, and the nut straight beaten by a nut flush -- and those are the ones I can remember. This is heads up in a relatively short period of time.

I have played PLO for 10+ hours straight live multiple times and never seen so many big beats.

I am going to keep playing because it's fun and I'm making money, but I have completely changed my playing style to adapt to this app.
Mind elaborating here? I see downthread you play a little looser with draws, and curious what other tweaks you've made. I mostly play 3 player SNGs ($100-200 buy in) with 2 buddies and have been struggling. I'll probably screen record some of the games and manually log the hands, since the export feature is currently worthless.
Pokerrrr 2 (by PT.farm) Quote
05-11-2020 , 12:43 PM
I play cash. PLO, 5-card PLO, 5-card hi-lo PLO, and 1/2 NLHE.

In NLHE, I play about the same hand strength as live, using position, etc. However, I'm more cautious. I'm much less likely to gii w/o the stone nuts. I definitely make slightly poor-odds calls on draws because they seem to hit much more often. When draws hit against my hand, I slow way down. They almost always have it -- I'm not making up how often draws come in in this game.

In PLO, I actually loosen up pre, but then it's about the same. I am very cautious about gii. I almost want to be the one behind considering how often the worse hand hits.

I know it's anecdotal, but I've play an average of about seven (probably more) hours a day, every day -- for the past six weeks plus. I am playing right now.

It's weird, but I basically tighten up when I have a really good hand and loosen up when I'm behind. Seems wrong, but it's working.
Pokerrrr 2 (by PT.farm) Quote
05-13-2020 , 06:34 PM
Thanks. That's helpful. I trust your something more than anecdotal read.

I think my best bet is probably more geared towards studying my opponents when we get heads up. The game usually plays out that they go bananas early and I get up HU with 30-40% of the chips. Loosening up a little bit when it's 3 handed is probably EV+ as well.
Pokerrrr 2 (by PT.farm) Quote
05-14-2020 , 12:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
I play cash. PLO, 5-card PLO, 5-card hi-lo PLO, and 1/2 NLHE.

In NLHE, I play about the same hand strength as live, using position, etc. However, I'm more cautious. I'm much less likely to gii w/o the stone nuts. I definitely make slightly poor-odds calls on draws because they seem to hit much more often. When draws hit against my hand, I slow way down. They almost always have it -- I'm not making up how often draws come in in this game.

In PLO, I actually loosen up pre, but then it's about the same. I am very cautious about gii. I almost want to be the one behind considering how often the worse hand hits.

I know it's anecdotal, but I've play an average of about seven (probably more) hours a day, every day -- for the past six weeks plus. I am playing right now.

It's weird, but I basically tighten up when I have a really good hand and loosen up when I'm behind. Seems wrong, but it's working.

I came on this site for just this very info. Thank you very much. I had a rough night on the app, I feel flop flush draws hit at about a 90% rate and obviously I was on the wrong side of it tonight.

I’ve been in a friendly group since quarantine as well and have logged quite a few hands. I paid for my results with some coins and have about 12,000 hands logged and luckily up around +7500 playing mostly ..5/1.

It is a 100% bullshit app as well. Way too many juiced up hands. I got two straight flushes within 20 hands a few nights ago. Quads daily. A royal. It’s ridiculously fake.

Thanks for the advice tho I’m definitely going to change my playing style.

Flush draws do not fold so even overbetting them off the draws doesn’t work. The gigs up and everyone in all my clubs know how rigged it is so no matter what the bet they chase the draw and I don’t blame them.

Def need to adapt to the app tho bc it’s the same for everyone but learning to navigate the mine field of bullshit this app delivers is almost more important than playing sound poker
Pokerrrr 2 (by PT.farm) Quote
05-14-2020 , 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royle Bluntson

Def need to adapt to the app tho bc it’s the same for everyone but learning to navigate the mine field of bullshit this app delivers is almost more important than playing sound poker
Spot on!
Pokerrrr 2 (by PT.farm) Quote
05-14-2020 , 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
Spot on!
It's so refreshing to see poker back in the spotlight and since quarantine it has really taken off on this app. The play I have seen has been like pre black friday bad poker and it's nice to just have a lot of loose action again.

I def haven't adjusted fully yet tho and need to. You are spot on with tightening after the draws hit and slowing way down without the stone nuts. I've also just been introduced to 5 card hi/lo and I've been one of the fish for sure.

But for now on I'm def taking a new approach to the way I play. I'm sure your in a similar group as me and there are so many bad players so there is really no need to stress about the bad beats... they come and go just like online website but are more frequent and I just need to adjust to them better and expect them more, ie folding better hands more often.

Also is it me or is AK the worst hand on the app.. Ive seen it win maybe 5% of the time its ever involved in a pot.
Pokerrrr 2 (by PT.farm) Quote
05-18-2020 , 04:13 PM
The ridiculousness of the beats in this app are getting almost unbearable
Pokerrrr 2 (by PT.farm) Quote
05-18-2020 , 04:19 PM
Group I play with is so bad that I am going to continue to play. The RNG is extremely suspect but it doesn't seem to favor any individual so I can deal with it
Pokerrrr 2 (by PT.farm) Quote
05-18-2020 , 04:36 PM
I hope you are right.

I swear it seems as if bad play is constantly rewarded, but it's so hard for me to play that bad.
Pokerrrr 2 (by PT.farm) Quote
08-09-2020 , 05:04 AM
I play in 5-6 clubs. Very loose and fishy games, reminds me of online poker in 2005. This is also the reason you experience more bad-beats. I love this app.
Pokerrrr 2 (by PT.farm) Quote
08-11-2020 , 04:19 AM
have you tried upoker? there's clubs that have thousands of players on it.
Pokerrrr 2 (by PT.farm) Quote
08-20-2020 , 02:41 AM
Anyone having issues with timing out? The connection I'm able to get on Pokerrrr 2 is extremely sketchy -- I frequently miss my opponents' actions and it skips across the table straight to me, and occasionally I'll time out and miss my turn entirely. This is obviously super frustrating when I time-out fold the nuts, which has happened at least three times. My internet connection seems fine with every other program I use. No real issues with PokerBros or Ignition.

Anything I can do to improve it? I've mostly used an iPad mini 5th gen and an IPhone 8. Things seem a little better with an emulator on my PC, but I can't really use it because the swiping motion often fails to work when using a mouse.
Pokerrrr 2 (by PT.farm) Quote
09-06-2020 , 06:36 PM
I have had bad experience with this app but when I outlined my experience it was moved to a different forum by the mods. I don't understand why. I think people who check out this thread should be aware there are legitimate concerns with this app beyond this "omg rigged!" usual stuff.

In short, beware that many of the concerns outlined in this thread are shared by me and others.
Pokerrrr 2 (by PT.farm) Quote
09-07-2020 , 09:58 PM
Quote:
The shuffling mechanism won't recognise poker hands, so it won't be possible to create stronger or weaker poker hands.

Any programmers know whether the bolded statement from the developer is true?
This is likely occurring server side, but I did not dig into the code to confirm. For security reasons, the clients should not be doing any randomization.

I ended up at this thread for the same reason many of the previous posters specified, the questionable nature of the RNG implementation in this app. Since I'm new to this forum, a little background about myself. I'm a long-time programmer and reverse-engineer with over 2 decades of experience. I'm a recognized developer (under a different pseudonym) on one of the largest mobile device forums as well.

I began having doubts about the true randomness of the hands/boards in this app after several months of NLHE tournament play. Rather than speculate on this, I delved into the app to try and quantify things through the hand history. I expected that hand history would be saved locally in a database on the device, alas they are not even stored temporarily in such fashion. The hand history is completely stored on the app's servers, which I find extremely curious. There's no legitimate reason that hand history can't be stored locally. I also see no reason that an export hand history function has not been implemented (programatically, it's trivial). The only reason
to withold such data is to prevent offline analyses, which may be for one of two reasons: to prevent profiling players or examination of the hand/result probabilities.

Unfortunately, without a true export function, hand analysis would have to be done manually via screenshots or screen record sessions and develop a program to parse out the hands and compile the data. These two options are both onerous, especially considering the number of hands (n) needed to show statistical proof of non-random results. This leaves us with the RNG certifier, Gaming Labs Intl. It seems their intial certification process requires a complete source-code audit, but what follow-up is there during the 4 year certification period? Short of triggering a GLI inquiry or convincing the developer to open-source parts of the app/server, I see no simple solution w/o hand history access.

Last edited by PocketD22; 09-07-2020 at 10:08 PM.
Pokerrrr 2 (by PT.farm) Quote

      
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