I played on PD for about 10 days, and I thought I would share my experiences as well as unveil some stuff that played out behind the scenes.

Regarding GoodvsEvil, there was a very wierd situation that happened where GvE claimed that his Skype/facebook was hacked. During this time that he was supposedly hacked, he sent out a WordPress website that claimed he had tried to buy a piece of PD (5%) for $10k, including some very specific details about the site in the process. It was a very well thought out, long post that he took down very quickly. Before I even contacted Fran regarding GvE, he sent me a message on Skype, and sent me a DPS photo that he claimed to be GvE and how he was a known cheat that was banned from a casino in Missouri, and that he was a scam artist. Fran denied any involvement with GvE, and completely denied the situation (GvE trying to buy a piece) ever happened. I have seen GvE playing from time to time on PD after the incident so I believe Fran here, but I havent seen GvE on any public forums since this went down.

Now, back to my take about PD. Their software has some issues, like bet sizing for the 'pot' buttons, but overall it is very good for a USA player. Software is not the issue for this site for sure.

I want to outline some issues I've had with the site. The lack of communication is extremely troubling. I was promised a cashout next day several times, and typically when I would try and contact Fran on Skype, he would not respond.

One day, I was playing on a table and asked simply 'has anyone received a withdrawal lately?'. Fran contacted me on Skype and said 'i would appreciate if you do not stir things up on the table about withdrawals'. This rubbed me the wrong way, for obvious reasons.

When I signed up to play on the site, Fran gave me a rakeback deal. Was told I would be paid every Monday. I signed up on a Saturday, and on Tuesday after not receiving a RB payment I asked Fran why I wasn't paid. He told me: 'Normally we pay rakeback 1 time per week. In your case it was going to be paid next monday, since you just started. We normally dont pay Rakeback a few days after registration'. I thought this was a bit shady but didn't really mind, as long as I was paid in full the following Monday, July 29. I was never paid and have asked several times via Skype about this getting paid but have been met by silence, and still haven't seen a penny of RB.

I am friends with a person who has dealt with PD quite a bit, and he had this to say: 'PD is bad news. Is he trying yes but doesn't run it right. He questions basically every withdrawal'. I feel this is a fair take. The vibe that Fran gives off is not a good one. I can tell he is trying, but he gets extremely defensive very easily which always turns me off, no matter how misguided. He needs a better community rep, let alone one who actually WANTS to be part of an open discussion in the community. Taking constructive criticism from your players should be an incredibly high priority for a poker site, a new one ESPECIALLY, and establishing trust is key as well. I think on both of these points PD so far has been below average.

I wish PD nothing but the best of luck. If they ever decide to pay my RB I will play there again, but until then I will have to wait and see some changes occur before I feel safe keeping my own money on there long-term. I wish Fran and the PD team nothing but success.

It is unfortunate you have this information Zecko, as this was only shared directly with the owner via a skype conversation. This is the main reason we pulled away from there. There is alot of negative talked that goes on behind the scenes. Ever since grindabit decided to Promote SatoshiPoker and remove us from a featured advertiser, things started going downhill.

day 6,still waiting for btc withdrawal.

I come to this thread only for the soap opera. I learned a new word today. As perfect as it is I am surprised I don't remember seeing it before. It has been around since the 1520's and is derived from Medieval Latin.

In order to run a online Poker Site we believe there should be a high level of transparency. We are here to build trust within the community otherwise we would not waste our time here. During the course of the time that we have been on 2+2 situations have aroused that has damaged our credibility. There has been legitimate postings as well as false accusations and so forth. There have been people posting that we owe them money which in reality its completely false. We will learn to deal with this. Unfortunaly we are useto handling things a little different. The most important thing here is we are being accused of being LTE just rebranded. This is absoutly false. We are our own company and run our own show. LTE didnt pay players, Poker Dominicano Does. We accepted 5 players from LTE as table PROPS. This has backfired very much but we will deal with it.
Since we are talking about being transparent i will disclose what exactly happened with Grindabit. When Poker dominicano started accepting BTC as a form of deposit we were contacted via email by Grindabit. They were interested in becoming a affiliate and offered us a Regular thread on there forum. Based on the quality of the site we decided this could be a good idea for the growth of the site. Just a few days went by and we noticed alot of new accounts and depositors started coming in. This was a very good thing for Poker dominicano and it helped to spread the word about our site.
Poker dominicano saw the potential and approached Steve (weee) the owner of grindabit and discussed of becoming a exclusive partner there. This is when things started to flow in the wrong direction. Steve (weee) Pitt (bellalobo) and i starting talking about becoming a exclusive partner of Grindabit. The agreement would be based on the simple fact, that they would not promote another BTC site on there forum but Poker dominicano. Poker Dominicano then sent them a Upfront Payment for the exclusive to be listed in the featured part of the site. We then got the proposal to finalize the exclusive agreement. Below was the requirements they requested from Poker Dominicano.

Grindabit's proposal
What can we offer ?
We bring a solid base of players and a large poker following. We have one of the best reputations in the poker community.
We can offer you exclusive access to our site. Giving your players options to deposit that are unmatched by any poker site. Including: Credit Cards, PayPal, GreenDotMoneyPaks, Amazon Payments, Western Union, MoneyGram, Bitcoins, and Litecoins.
Mentioning, and promoting of Poker Dominicano in our daily news articles, as well as blogs. Least 2 times a week or more.
Bringing our GrindaBit tournaments to Poker Dominicano. They have a strong base of players that follow them daily. Can bring you instant traffic.
Raffles for tournaments. Our SWC raffles are very popular. They generate extra players for the larger buy ins. At start this will be used for our GaB tournaments, as well as the Sunday 1k guarantee.
We will help market, promote and actively support Poker Dominicano. Through our reputation, word of mouth, contacts, 2+2, P5s, Poker training sites, contests, and promotions.
We will help provide prop players. Solid grinders, who are reliable, trustworthy, and have their own friends that will come with them.
Our 100% commitment to Poker Dominicano. Support, promote, and actively encourage players to play on Poker Dominicano.
Contacts we have in poker community that are both business related, and or personally related.
We will offer staking on your site. Which will bring more players to Poker Dominicano
Many more things, to numerous to mention.
What do we seek in return ?
Assurances that, our deal stays same. Regardless of any changes on site, or growth.
We would both be given the highest VIP level on site, with all perks included. Including any new ones added. In future should VIP perks include any cash, tournaments, trips, anything additional, we will receive.
Our affiliate percentage goes from xx% to xx%.
A flat one time payment of $xxxx dollars. This covers cost of personalized cards, loss revenue, and contests and promotions for site. Due by Sunday 6/30/13
We will be given 2 GrindaBit tournaments a day. First one is between 10am/1pm and 1pm/4pm second is between 5pm/8pm and 7pm/10pm. The structure of which we choose, as well as a fluxuating Guarantee as we so choose. We will cover all guarantees for our tournaments. We will also keep rake for our tournaments, up to the first 40 players. Rake after player #40 will be split 50/50.
Example GaB tourney 2k guar has 100 players. 100% for players 1-40 goes to us. 50% of rake from player #41-100 goes to us, and 50% goes to PD
We get an option for a 3rd GaB tournament at off hours. Like 9pm/12am-2am/5am time bracket. All GaB tournaments are guarantees, and we cover the guarantees.
We currently run exclusive GaB tourneys daily on SWC, and two on Saturdays. They always meet their guar, and have some of the largest turnouts for any tournament on SWC besides the Big BTC, and Saturday 10k.
GaB tournament payments will be processed every Sunday night.
Prop players we provide you get 50% rake back, $25 sign up bonus instead of $5(or $20 if we have already had them sign up)But they can not withdraw bonus money until they have cleared an agreed upon amount of player points, or set amount of rake. Lastly they will get a ticket to 1 free entry into a GaB tournament, provided by you. No more than 5 prop players will receive this package.
You agree that all deposits go through our site
This is where the problems started. Poker dominicano did not agree on the terms laid out for the Grindabit tournaments. We were not in a position to give away 100% of the rake on a tournament that was open to all players. This means not only does poker dominicano loses 100% rake on those players, we also lost rake to other players who are members of other affiliates. Some of the grindabit tournament they wanted, was High juice. like a $20+$3.
We had our first confrontation and that lead to breaking up the relationship right away.
To be continued on the next post.

This is when things started to get heated. Poker Dominicano partially agreed to the proposal but we decided to change our mind about the Tournaments the following day. We thought grindabit would be willing to hold off on these games and we could work something out accordingly. It didn't work as planned, they did not want to work with me without those tournaments and they would not be flexible with them at all. I explained how this can affect our site and we are not in the position to give away so much money away yet. The following day we told Grindabit we would like to just back out of this deal and not continue with it, if we cannot work on the GAB tournaments. I asked Kindly to Steve to please refund our payment as nothing actually happened. They denied it. They keep our money and simply told us that they did what they were suppose to do, at least for 1 day. Ok this was Phase #1. Things got very bad and suddenly Poker Dominicano started getting withdrawals from Grindabit players including Steve (weee). Grindabit directed there players to withdraw the funds from our site. Poker Dominicano felt we got scammed from our upfront money but decided to take a loss. In hope not to lose our upfront investment we contacted Steve again and told him how wrong it was to just take our money and remove our banners, Thread, from there site. The money we paid should have covered at least for a few months of promotion on Grindabit.Long story short, we agreed and made up. The relationship at this point is already somewhat tarnished. Poker dominicano used them to get and send Bitcoins. This time we decided to only work as a affiliate partner and not involving any exclusives or anything. We then put Grindabit games with $200 $150 $300 GTD for 15 days straight every day. In spice to juice up the players that had already Left PD for the Grindabit incident we had. This tournament were all covered by Poker Dominicano. Grindabit then put Poker Dominicano on the featured section once again and things were running smoothly.Poker Dominicano took a lose of thousands all that week. So players once again started depositing at the word that Grindabit and Poker Dominicano were partners. The main problem came a few weeks later when suddenly i see a new Site on top of my Featured Thread with Grindabit tournaments as well. This really made us mad as we had been investing thousands a week in these tournaments for Grindabit. The new site was SatoshiPoker.org. Grindabit right away started ghosting some tournaments and i confronted him about it. Things got bad really quick.

Too be continued...

That seems like an unbelievably one sided story..I could be wrong, but fully expect Bella and Steve to post a follow up to this soon.

After they had started promoting tournament for another site in the featured thread this really hurt Poker Dominicano. We notice how many withdrawals we were getting and no more deposits were coming in.This is when i contact Steve and said something is going on. Your players are no longer playing and it seems there is some internal problem going on. When i would log into Grindabit i would get Chat Messages from the actual Owner of SatoshiPoker.
Some of the messages from Satoshi poker.

SatoshiPoker
just wanted to say hello, but i hate cocky pricks who dont know how to run a business
just as u messed up LTE you will fail again

I contacted Steve a large variety of times to address this issue, i guess he did since the harassing chats stopped coming in.
Decided to deal with this and move on. Then i started getting messages from Affiliates who had been in contact with Steve (weee) who he tried to recruit to join Satoshipoker. Satoshipoker had tried multiple times to recruit some of my biggest affiliates and has spammed some of those forums as well. Apparently Satoshi and Steve (weee) have a great deal going on. Things turned for the worst when i get a message stating that Poker dominicano was Charging Grindabit for the overlays in the tournaments. This was a total lie, and never did we charge 1 dime to Grindabit for the loses we had on those Games. We got tired of all the lies, rumors, and decided to pull out from Grindabit.

Would be a honor if they respond. I would like to see them respond under there real 2+2 name because they do have one.

Figured i would just post the skype chat where the problems started.
[7/2/2013 10:11:54 PM] Poker Dominicano: Well Steve, im going to kindly request a refund of our payment as the necessary services wre not provided for a period of time. 24 hours has passed which does not account for that much money. You are not willing to put our thread where it should be. Refund $xxxx and take $xxxx for the first month on this thread. I am not interested in paying for 6 month or 1 year of service. I have been straight up honest with you and i dont mess around when it comes to money. Was trying to work with you guys, but seems you guys expect to extract to most from it. Im trying to make sure the site last by saving as much money possible. What do you say?
[7/2/2013 10:16:19 PM] weeeeee: there was an agreement and it is documented. we brought you players, we played your games. We added you exclusivity as was asked of us. I stopped playing on swc and brought players over. That xxxx dollars is in our possession. It was a agreed on. It was a deal. you chose to not continue the offer.

[7/2/2013 10:38:48 PM] weeeeee: we did provide the services offered. we offered you exclusivity and 100% effort on promotion. AND most of all players.
[7/2/2013 10:39:19 PM] weeeeee: we did put you up on the top.
[7/2/2013 10:39:22 PM] Poker Dominicano: Well during our exclusivity agreement you still had Pcoket Aces and Seals thread active.
[7/2/2013 10:39:25 PM] Poker Dominicano: That was not exclusive

They are right here. It was done for 24 hours. It was a loss to us. Just shows the integrity of them. Ever since, things went from bad to worst.

This information was directed directly to Steve. There was nobody aware of what had happened. Just shows how they instantly started talking about us within the community. It was Steve who shared this with ZeckoRiver.

hey fran,can u just pay me please?
Then continue with the novel.

Meh I just unsubscribed to this post for I am not one that likes drama. I have got a reach out from Bobo Fett and have decided to let Bobo reach out to Fran as well to give Fran a chance to see why he needs to post this agreement on 2 plus 2.
My statement is going to wait on 2 plus 2. Anyone have a knife to cut this tension?



Oh by the way since he used my real name then my 2 plus 2 name doesnt really matter does it.

To be honest I have no idea why Poker Dominicano / Francisco feels the need to drag this Grindabit story onto 2+2, as it has absolutely nothing to do with it. The urge to show some transparency actually backfires because your demand to have an affiliate pull all other existing sites that also deal with Bitcoins is as comical as the cease and desist threat. It also highlights a lack of experience in this business too that you choose to openly expose.

wtf?

bitinstant has nothing to do w/payment processing for poker sites.

39suited, actually it does have alot to do with it. Most of the post on this thread are players from Grindabit.

Grindabit agreed that the deal would be on a Exclusive basis. Which they advised me to continue to have the other sites there in order to be able to get the traffic sites like SWC was getting.


Bobo i read your PM, and feel free to post in response to this.

Fran, it seems you have overlooked my question during your pursuit of this issue. Could you please address this for me.

Also, I would like to say that it is my opinion that disclosing full details of the events that happened at GaB is not going to have any positive impacts for PD. I understand that being transparent is a platform for you but in situations such as this it is sometimes best to just be simple and precise with your answers. In this particular issue that answer should have been that the information posted was suppose to be a private issue between you and GaB and though it is correct there are many underlying issues involved that you will not be discussing here in the forum.

@anyone:
I keep seeing this PM feature mentioned but can not find how to send one. Is this a select feature that is entitled or earned, or am I missing where/how to find this?

You have to have a certain activity / number of posts on 2+2 first to have the PM option enabled as spam prevention - quite a few of the new accounts tend to spam up the forums.

Thank you, that was what I suspected.

I am going to go on record as the owner of Grindabit. I will simply say that everything that PD has said is true but way out of line and unprofessional to say the least. Ok grab the chains, tie me up and throw me out the back of a truck and just drive me naked on the pavement is in fact what you are doing.

I am a 600 member forum that mainly serves the bitcoin poker community. I am only a peeon in the poker community. I want to put this all into perspective. I am of no threat to any poker room that has a traffic and a good business sense to withstand a fall out of an affiliate which in fact happened, a fall out.

To put to rest, Fran if you remember the initial deal was full exclusivity and you managed to take us down to an agreed upon terms of this exclusivity very cheaply as I recall. We agreed on the exclusivity deal but in turn the very next day, you "changed your mind" on the part of the agreement where you were going to give us 100% rake on the tourneys that we put up (with Grindabit covering the overlay). With that, I will admit, I lost my cool for I took it as a bite inside the community of Grindabit (not me, the membership) as you officially devalued the membership.

You were the one that initially broke your agreement on our exclusivity clause so I can maintain my own site with what I want to do, if it was putting Satoshi Poker there, that is my deal. That is of no business what I do with my site and I beleive everyone on 2+2 would agree with that statement.

It would be a different story if you continued with the agreement we set at the start with the full 100% rake on our tournaments (it was an exclusive agreement meaning no more advertising spent of any other poker site) and you stayed with that agreement, you chose to renigg that deal, and that is the fact of the matter there. You can't have your cake and eat it too Fran. You can't make deals and then "change your mind" as you did. you almost didn't give over the affiliate dollars owed to GrindaBit if you remember because you said "You didn't earn it". I believe every person that I dealt with on the site would tell you, I bent over backwards to make your site as successful as it can, but in fact, you ARE your own worst enemy and I feel that all can say that. Just look through this entire thread and it will show you exactly what I mean by threatening even 2+2 a cease and desist.

Things blew over and I worked with you exclusively and Pitt worked on the other sites. i totally backdoored the other sites but the agreed upon terms is that we would no longer be exclusive and we would put you in the "featured thread". I worked myself pretty much day and night to work with players and putting my rep out there for your site but you constantly made it very difficult to rep as I say fast cashouts, you constently found every angle not to pay timely. You fought and scratch basically all those that are under me when they wanted withdrawals, You found every possible angle you could think of to not get them paid timely as you have advertised 1 hour cashout time.

I do know that there were some that got paid timely and there were some hiccups along the way but you did make good on those payouts. It did seem however that it always was an uphill battle each time that I had issues to the folks that were under me (as I was the affiliate) for most of my folks dealt mostly with bitcoin.

You are all about the drama. If you would spend the time drumming up the drama, you would have a sick site and full of players. The drama is constently damaging your reputation as a poker room.

Finally, when it came time for affiliate pay, you were the one that dumped me and the tourneys (which were yours and YOU were the one that wanted Grindabit on them, not I). I even further agreed to keep your forums up in the Feature thread until Augusust and on July 30th, I had enough of you locking your own posts and it went out of control, you locking every one of them, made no sense at the point so I moved it off the featured thread.

Then when I received a skype message from you to have 24 hours or a cease and desist letter from an attorney was going to be handed to me so I complied and left it at that. When people ask why, I concured. Zecko asked and I told him. No harm in that I don't think.

When people ask for my opinion of your site the way it is now, I would have to be honest and tell them, there is no harm in that.

I don't think I have anything in your novel that I have done anything dishonest or wrong. I may be blind or maybe naive but it is what is is. You where excited when GaB members were playing on your site, you got greedy, you lost the GaB members, bottom line brotha.

Grindabit weeeeee whitelextown a.k.a Steve no hiding

Dragging this issue out in the open does not make you or Poker Dominicano look more professional, actually much the opposite. I previously mentioned in this thread to not take any issues to a personal level and yet again you do exactly that. It is by far more difficult to re-gain lost reputation than earning it initially - think about this.

While 2+2 may not bring in a lot of players to a new start up, it may very well keep a lot off them when people see what others post about it.

Appreciate your honesty here. We have nothing to hide either nor make up lies down the road as many people claim.

This was a not the case, hence the minute we had our confrontation people withdrew and left our site, and you allowed them to continue to talk behind the scenes. You personally admitted to me once you lost your cool and you maybe mentioned something about it, which caused the withdrawals from some players.

Yes i did agree but misunderstood the terms on the tournaments. Therefor the very next day i contacted you to back out of this deal. I tried plenty of times to work this out but your willingness was not there. Yes you cover the overlays. The juice on those games would be $20+$3 , simple math would be if you filled those games with 40 players, that would be $120 in your pocket per tournament + the high % rakeshare, and since the tournament would be open to all, i have to pay my other affiliates % of there players to. I asked for a refund, you denied it. I agree you did keep your end of the bargain for at least 24 hours. I accepted my loss and contacted you to at least put our thread up as a courtesy for being out all the money. You went good on that.

The fact here is you lost your cool, and decided it was ok to share inside information with other members of your forum. Including but not limited to SatoshiPoker and more forum members. Of which have done nothing less than destroy our image via chats on your forum. Yes you are aware of this. Are you denying this to?

Agreed, after i had been offering Grindabit GTD which added to $6000 per week, you decide to put someone else above me and ghost the tournaments. I was not going to take this lightly as you know i was losing thousands a week on this. I gave you exposure on my site as well. You benefited of new registrations on your forum.

Not denying your work ethic and what you had done for PD. WE used your multiple time to help us getting bitcoins to payout players but you left on vacation things slowed down. We have the right to question withdrawals. Especially when some are over $300 +. As you were a Agent Affiliate, we have no idea who was a actual depositor and who wasn't. You know this. You only did transfers in the backend.

Actually im far away from drama. Unfortunately this all started after we had our first head collusion. Are you denying not mentioning this to anyone? After drama started blowing up, people started showing up on 2+2 as well. I was perfectly fine before i met you or participated in Grindabit. There is a perfect example ZeckoRiver which even yourself told me the kind of person he is as always complaining on all websites and is never happy. How he goes on tilt and withdraws. You sowed this seed in me. Yet you allowed him to create thread after thread on your forum.

Again locking was a factor as you were away and the was little moderation on that thread. I locked the thread as Bozamavrit (ZeckoRiver) consistently posted the same stuff and no one was doing anything about it. He posted in category's that had nothing to do with us.

This was not made public to anyone. It was confidential information directed to you. Just as you mentioned this, it confirms that you mention other things to your players and affiliates. Yes your affiliates even told me stuff only you knew.

Please pm me your username. We have had people posting here who are false claiming money owed , we might of just missed yours. Thank you.

This was a not the case, hence the minute we had our confrontation people withdrew and left our site, and you allowed them to continue to talk behind the scenes. You personally admitted to me once you lost your cool and you maybe mentioned something about it, which caused the withdrawals from some players.

I communicate truth and at the heat of the moment, I did tell some forum members to deposit for fear of the current situation as part of the heat was upon my reputation which made me kind of sickly mad.

I agree again that I spoke with satoshipoker as it was asked pertaining to the agreement I had with you for they wanted the same deal. They see your posts on the thread and I can't speak for them for they make their own decisions how they process the information. I merely said to them that I was let go as an affiliate on your site for purpose of the overlay (which is in fact true) as Fran, you agree that is the reason for taking me out of the fold was due to my inability to fill the GaB tourneys.

Now as everyone knows, it isn't my responsibility to fill your tournaments. It was a choice you made to make these tourneys go. If you can remember, you may have overlayed by a couple of people. I continued to bend over backwards to cover as much as I could to get these tourneys running and others as a matter of fact and encouraging play on the ring tables, offering thoughts ideas to you on a daily basis during this time. As you continue to piss the players of mine off as they do make frequent withdrawals taking advantage of your swift withdrawals you had initially, this in fact normal for a bitcoin poker player. Most people don't play exclusively on one particular site or another especially when there is virtually no action on PD.

It isn't Grindabit's responsibility and I don't hold a responsibility to your choice of putting our tourneys up. They were YOUR tournament with Grindabit name on them. You got this backwards. Grindabit helped you out in prime not hurt it. You spin it to think that you helped us but as a matter of fact, this post actually taints a bad picture of what Grindabit is all about. So for you to say that you paid 6K to keep us, that is the wrong approach.


Dude, I don't babysit ZeckoRiver. He does what he pleases. Most of his posts were not out of line. They started genuine and you spin it in defense thinking he is misrepresenting. He isn't any uncommon to most of the other 2+2 posts out there.


It was your prerogative for I gave you the moderator keys to do that which I don't normally give (and will never in the future give the moderator keys to anyone). Again, I am not staffed like 2+2 and can I guy go on vacation?

Well you spreading my real name on threads and calling everyone out giving out personal information on this exact thread here on 2+2 does indicated that you use this as the little leverage that you have to gain a foot. Well, i am done now with this. I have said my peace.

If anyone really cares for me to address any questions pertaining or if I was out of line, please direct them via PM like what any person should have done in the first place to begin.

Really people? Are we 5?