I posted every email I got a few posts back.

excuse my ignorance but can someone tell me the difference between echecks and bank transfers? Has this 'seizure' affected bank wires/transfers at all?

And is this problem exclusive to just Pokerstars and FTP? Has anyone had any problems withdrawing at UB, Doyles, Cake...?

Somebody mentioned that the Feds are doing this because the Casinos in Vegas and A.C. are HURTING bad.

I also think this could be a glorified "Test Run" as well. And if anything like this happens again with that amount of cash. Stars and Tilt will say sayonara to the U.S.

They dont need us. Poker is now just starting to explode in South America and has been in Asia for a while. They will take a hit for a year or so, then will be making as much as they did with U.S. customers.

Speaking of Party, I received a letter from them today with a $10 bonus in my account. Yes Canadians can still play there

Ok, I would suppose with Barney Frank's bill on the table the sites are going to wait until the fate of that legislation appears clear before they would consider pulling out, regardless of the current hassles. I would assume they would use whatever measures they could take that would reduce their risks as that bill plays out.

For me, I am going to continue playing as normal, cash out only when my stack is big enough for a wire transfer, and buy chips (which I hope will be very seldom) with prepaid visa gift cards or whatever prepaid cards work, and hope for the best.

Stars average traffic is multiples of the highest non-US facing site. Lets not be too cavalier with "they don't need the US business" stuff. Throwing away the majority (or at least a strong plurality) of your customers is sort of a big deal. South American and Asian isnt going to replace US business within the next year. Probably not in the next five years. China is mandating computer manufacturers install or provide devices to allow the Government to filter internet access on all computers sold in the country after July 1st, think Stars is rolling into that market in a big way any time soon?

Doing a test run would be pretty stupid strategy since obviously the sites will keep less money in the US after this.

i done tought him everything he thinks he noes.

It's estimated 50-75% of poker players on the internet are from the USA, I don't think they can cut ties with the US just yet.

Successful companies dont think this way. its about the bottom line. They need us as long as they can effectively service the united states. They aren't just like "o lol its chll we can go get some chinese guys to play". The US has been a reliable source of income and still is for these sites.

If many processors start getting hit and the PPA litigation fails, then we are in trouble however.

Maybe it is time that the online poker community makes a clear statement by taking this issue to the courts for a final ruling.
Any US Attorney anywhere in the US can initiate prosecution in a similar manner and can tie the poker sites up in litigation for years. That is a common practice for the DOJ, just keep dragging you through courts until you tire and give in due to costs. Just as Dik**** at PartyGaming.
There are a number of issues the PPA can argue on our behalf in this particular case (much less any other pending cases).
Lets file a class action suit on behalf of all players demanding a cut of any settlements since the activity was clearly "Illegal" and the government allowed it to continue for almost ten years. Since the government failed to act to protect me and stop a clearly "Illegal" activity I want my piece of the PartyGaming settlement and the $30 million at Wells Fargo.
* That was tounge in cheek but there is an angle there don't you think?
In all seriousness maybe we should just get the PPA to drive this one into the dirt and get a clear, single, binding Supreme Court ruling on the whole online poker thing once and for all. I have little faith that Barney Frank's bill will see the light of day.

If you can its time to transfer away from these US facing sites, this is a wake up call for all of those that claim their cash is safe in PS and FT. Even if its $10m for FT or PS this is at least a months profits, and then they have to find it again to pay back all of its customers, no 2 ways about it this is a big blow. This is being persued under the wire act, the same one that Party, Neteller, Bet on Sports etc. were punished - once UIGEA comes in expect it to get worse if not impossible to get your cash on off one of these shady sites.

Stop the Goddamn fearmongering!!!!!!!!!!

does anyone know will this affect the players outside the u.s. ???

$10MM is not at least a months profits. You are making things up. The sites have already paid back their customers and, as of today, cashing out is still readily doable.

No one from the sites have been criminally charged and their assets have not been frozen. That makes it different from Neteller and BetonSports and means your cash is still accessible.

Stop making random stuff up and spreading panic for no reason.

I wonder if that could be done with anywhere from a single online player's lawsuit to a class action lawsuit against the DOJ for our right to play? I have no doubt that the players would collectively "shove" in terms of support if we had a decent hammer to swing. Does the PPA have anything along this line in the works already? Why would the Supreme Court take the case anyway?

I'm not even from the US, but I am really sad right now. So many people are clueless as to what exactly is going on and it seems obvious to me that most of the fish (IE people who post "I knew it, blah blah blah, serves these shady sites right") now have an excuse not to play. It is extremely naive of people in Canada and Europe to say "Oh well, ahahah my money is safe, sucks to be an American" IMO. Regardless of whether the best case scenario or worst case scenario happens in this situation, I still feel as if we have already lost. I mean, I've already seen countless individuals freaking out and either quitting themselves or giving someone else a reason to quit. All of this without even having so much as a dime "seized" from their account yet.

First off I am not an attorney but................
*The US Supreme Court could take a case directly if the court determines that the case has direct and immediate Constitutional ramifications ie, Miranda, Bush 2000, etc. However, the usual path is through the Federal and State Appeals systems. Heck even a US Circuit Court ruling has the power of law in that part of the US. Which is why this whole seizure opens the issue to federal court review for the following reasons:
1. Any player with funds entangled can file a claim with the US Attorney to get those funds. (Victim Rights, Right to Property)
2. When the government accepts a fine there is almost always a restitution to damaged parties clause in the agreement somewhere. (Right to Property)
3. The US government allowed what it considers to be an illegal activity to continue, grow and flourish since at least 1999 without prosecuting anyone while seizing funds and taking settlements. (Failure to enforce, Accepted practices)
4. With over $30 million up for grabs half the attorneys in the USA would take this case all the way to the Supreme court on a contingency just to get their 33%.
5. Unless we get a clear ruling on the Wire Act, UIGEA and a basket full of state laws and international claims Online Poker will always stay in the shadows of murky legitimacy.
*Litigation can be much more effective than weak Legislation.
The Assistant US Attorney for Southern New York just may have done us a favor in the long run.

Wow! What a great post! Thank you!

I hope that the litigation would be successful. This could actually make online poker LEGAL in the States. That would mean millions of fish coming back.

Hi folks -
First, let me make it clear that I'm not speaking particularly for Cake Poker here, and I'm certainly not speaking for any other site or entity. I'm simply speaking as somebody who's been around the block a few times...

There really is no reason to panic. Since the beginning of the online poker industry, we've been through similar things before.

• When I first started playing online poker, you could just pop in your Visa/MasterCard number and zap you had funds on a poker site. Then they started failing and we thought it was the end of online poker.
• Along came Neteller and Firepay, and we said "All better!" Then PayPal came along and we said "This is great!". Then PayPal got swallowed by eBay and stopped handling online gaming transactions . But we kept using Neteller and Firepay and it was okay.
• Then UIGEA happened, and we all freaked out a little bit, and then Neteller and Firepay bailed and we all freaked out a fair amount. But other things, such as eChecks, took their place, and things got somewhat back to normal.
• And now eChecks got frozen, and it's gonna be tough for a while until they get it straightened out.

But I firmly believe that they will get it straightened out. And we'll all go back to playing online poker and depositing and cashing out. It'll be some new and different way, but it'll work.

Needless to say, I am just as eager as anybody to get online poker 100% clearly legalized and regulated in the U.S. and every one of us should be supporting the PPA and its efforts. They did a great job in Minnesota and Pennsylvania, and damn near pulled off a miracle in South Carolina. Let's get 100% behind them.

But seriously, this is not the end of the world; the sky is not falling. Everybody kick back and relax a little bit; it's going to be okay.

Again - I'm speaking just as a battle-scarred veteran, not as a spokesman for anybody.

Regards, Lee

The sites should start opening up dontations for the PPA and have some freerolls for the dontators. We need to build up the PPA to build up the good legal fight.

A couple of years back a handful of us went to Washington and, even though our numbers were small, we made a bit of a splash.

If a couple of hundred of us had shown up, we would have made a significant splash.

If a couple of thousand of us had shown up, we would have shaken up Washington.

If 1/3 of 2+2 had quit grinding for a few days and gotten off their a$$es and worked for their rights, this wouldn't be happening, poker would already be clearly legal, and we would all be happy.

But everyone just sat around figuring that the sky wouldn't fall. Well, a good chunk of it just fell. And I'll wager there are larger chunks coming down soon.

You guys just keep grinding. In fact I would suggest you all grind a bit faster. Things are not going to be OK. You are in real danger of being shoved right out of online poker completely.

"It won't happen".

"It never happened before".

"It can't happen".

"Arrrggggg.., what just happened? They can't do this..!"

Yes they can.

Yes they are.

And just what are YOU going to do about it?

Tuff <<< Haven't played online in months. Too much trouble and the games suck.

oh wow this is crazy..
everyone donate to the PPA

Your children will be old and grey before this makes it to the supreme court.

man i don't give two shts I got the fam in S.A. to wire me the money f u U.S.A.