does anyone have any experience with cashouts? how are they?

what's the tourney schedule/stakes like?

sng stakes?

anything worth playing?

i have cashed out a few times via western union. as i recall the ppn processing fee was $10 and WU takes about 9% of the net amount. all my withdrawals were processed in less than a week.

you can deposit to ppn from pic-club and withdraw from ppn to pic-club free. there is a small fee to deposit to pic club to establish an account. I have never withdrawn from pic club to myself but last time i checked the processing fee was about $30

all the events on the "special" tab are worth playing, especially the sunday freeroll and the friday promotional bounty. the evening tourneys are the ones most likely to run. the stakes for those events range from $0.50 + 0.10 to 2.00 + 0.50. sng's don't get much action.

traffic is slow but there have been several new players in the last couple of weeks. hope to see u at the tables.

After receiving an e-mail from TJ from Rounders Row to come check out the new room on PPN I went ahead and did so.

After downloading the software my first impression was WTF! where are the players on this network? There was absolutely nobody to be found except some people registered for a freeroll.

I thought to myself what kind of network is this, is it for freerollers and nothing else. With nobody playing I couldn't see the software in play so I went back after the freeroll started to see what things looked like.

I go back and the freeroll is underway, there's still absolutely no cash games going whatsoever. I pull up a table and find I can't even resize the table at all. What's up with that?

Then I noticed that when the SB and BB are dealt in that the chips in front of them aren't deducted until they act when it's their turn. I've never seen that anywhere and that is a problem.

At times the players avatar would disappear and then reappear, I thought something was wrong with system and shut the room down and went back and saw it again. That's another strike.

The cards in front of the players are super small, it was hard to find the button on the table and when I saw players all in preflop the cards were dealt super quick and you couldn't tell what took place, there wasn't any pause between the flop/turn/river at all. It was boom boom boom.

The graphics, the quirkiness and the overall presentation of the software was in a word abysmal. I don't know where this software came from or who designed it but it's embarrassing for a network to have this bad of quality of software.

I guess that would explain why nobody plays there except the freerollers.

I did read in this thread some of the issues I saw but I didn't see much if any reply from the Gio person, I guess they are on vacation all the time except to report freeroll and bounty winners of some kind.

If this "Poker Pros" network is serious about getting players they really need to do a major change in software, a rep that is actually helpful because to me Gio "Can't Help" and they need some main stream marketing.

I'll monitor from a distance but TJ don't look for me to be playing with you anytime soon. Please don't take offense to that.

Id like to add to what toon84 said

This site needs a jump start, this site needs steroids like lanc... well nevermind

The software is buggy, improvments definately need to be made. I remember poker sites back in the day from like 2003-2004 the graphics may not of been done well, but they were not buggy

No marketing or attempt to get players!

Offer hourly free rolls to get players to play, please! if they had hourly free rolls within a day or so you would have a .02-04 cent nl table going full speed ahead.

Also the table limits are redundant, you see several tables for the same limit, but are lacking common sense tables

why is .5-1 limit only for heads up?

make general limit tables like 1-2 limit, 2-4 limit, 3-6 limit, not 10 tables that are some weird limit like .30-.60

Network may need new leadership?

I have no marketing experience but I can get games going!

maybe offer rake back and give away 5 dollars an hour in a free roll, 3 dollars for first, 2 dollars for 2nd, 1 dollar for third

wont take long for games to get going

How can they offer hourly freeroll tournaments when they only list one tournament per hour? Add to that for every tournament they list it needs 10 people to start, yes 10 people to start.

What poker rooms out there have a minimum of 10 players to start a regular tournament?

This touches upon what you said regarding leadership. I didn't think Chuck Kidd was this bad. Either that or he has totally non competent people in place that don't understand how poker works and what it takes to run a poker network.

Also they don't have any .02-.04 cent NL tables NONE. Again this goes back to not knowing the structures of poker.

Rake back isn't the answer for this network at all, they need players first and the grinding type at the lower levels to then start to build the upper levels. If they are expecting a bunch of $1/$2 NL players to magically show up and multi table to get things going they are sadly mistaken.

All the things I've seen so far is just amateur and that's being nice. We've seen it in this thread from GIO, it just makes you wonder if this network is even viable at all long term. The only way, I can see it is if they make massive changes or it will be as it is now. Dead!

One last thing, someone and I forget who in this thread said something about new software coming. Who cares?
If they have no players on the current software what makes you think they will get players on new software. You can have the best software or best prices but if you don't have any players or customers it doesn't matter how great the software or the product is.

i have complained about the 10 player minimum too. as bad as the traffic is, it seems hopeless to sign up for a 10 minimum tourney.

i did see that they recently added .02/.04 NLHE tables in the rounders row room. it is easy to transfer funds from one room to the other on the cashier page. i think i will give them a try.

Hi Toon, Supreme and Indy thanks for the comments.

You are correct that four .02/.04 NL tables were added and you will see additional table additions/subtractions soon. You will also see additional tournaments on top of the one per hour that is currently in place.

We are working on bringing you the experience you've come to know elsewhere but please keep in mind that getting things done takes some time so I ask that you be patient.

I know you've been super patient already but ask that you give us a chance to get things moving forward.

I can tell you firsthand that Chuck is committed to the network and that isn't going to change. I can't speak about the past and don't care to but if you want to help build a network and a room from the ground floor and see it grow then give us a try.

No poker room or network started with thousands of players, it took hard work, players that attracted other players and a good communication.

I promise we will get there so hang in there.

Thanks for your comments and a chance to reply to your concerns. Feel free to comment and keep suggesting your ideas.

TJ

This is part of the problem, there's already no traffic on PPN,just make all games available no matter where u play. No way I'm searching over 5-6 different skins to find games, I login and if no games on PPN I close client. I get they are trying to be innovative but this is just an awful idea.
Also +1 to getting rid of the min 10 player requirement for tournys. I can't speak for others but a 25$ guarantee means nothing to me,its essentially a SNG anyways. Get rid of the guarantees(if your that worried about overlay) and build from there,least you will have SNG's err I mean tournys running.
Lastly find another Gio. I've only read one post from TJ and never heard of Rounders Row, but that's the things support should be posting about, not who won the latest freeroll.

Edit- Another thing to add is, last tourny I played a player raised to 300 and next guy shoves for 375 or so, when it gets back to raiser he's able to iso-raise again WTF is that? His only option should be call or fold not raise.

[QUOTE=stlboy05;37083618] I've only read one post from TJ and never heard of Rounders Row, but that's the things support should be posting about, not who won the latest freeroll.

QUOTE]

i counted 17 posts about rounders row going back several months. As someone who has played on the ppn network for years, i'm happy to FINALLY welcome you and all the other new players. I hope it means americans are finally getting their money back from everleaf. i should probably follow up on the "where's our money" thread.

i was surprised none of the new players were in the bounty tourney tonight. I know it is offered in RR because i played from there tonight. it was cool to see different colors and graphics. i like the big numbers and colors on the 4 color deck. I have never seen "T" used instead of "10" before but it was no problem for me because i use it in hand descriptions all the time. some might confuse it for the "J" for jack, but that's their problem lol.

I like seeing the freeroll and bounty results. i guess i just like seeing my name in print lol. i hope they post tonight's bounty results because GUESS WHAT, I WON THE BOUNTY AND GOT MORE MONEY THAN THE GUY WHO WON THE TOURNEY!!! HAHA. THAT'S GOOD POKER.

Yeah, we have noticed it takes time. i'm not so sure you should be aiming for the experience we have come to know elsewhere. I trust Chuck not to rip us off. Almost all the other poker rooms have ripped me off or i got out before they ripped off the players.

I'm glad Chuck is blazing a new trail even if it is slow going. No one else would consider offering different rake rates on different tables, races to play the CEO heads up for cash, free bounties and all the other unique things he has done over the last year. I have seen many new players come and go but the core players like me are very loyal, and yes, patient. Nevertheless, I think i speak for many of the core players when i say don't tell me what you are going to do, show me what you have done. CAN I GET AN AMEN?!

Here you go Indy - your name in lights. Congratulations.

Results of the February 8 Bounty tourney:

IndyJones won the $10 promotional bounty on Mauddieeee.

1. Rstitlskin $10
2. Decker $6
3. Indy Jones $4

thanks Gio, ppn rocks!!! and so do u

TJ - You are going to need to do a lot more than have four .02/.04 NL tables added and the ones you had added you don't even have a 10 seater.

I know from playing on your last room that you work hard and are player friendly, I get that. You are up against it here and I hope you make it work. I am going to sit on the sideline until you get things to where they need to be.

It's obvious to me there are a few players in this chat that want to see things get better and success, I wish you the best in being that person to make it happen.

Gio - You proved my point to perfection, you can't help! Once again you post bounty results from a tournament. Do you really think people from 2+2 want to see those results?

What they want to see is results from people asking questions and bringing forth problems. Whether it be with tournaments, game play or software you've done absolutely nothing to address or fix any of these issues.

It's pretty sad to see a player say that they've also complained about a 10 player minimum to start tournaments. What does it take to get things done at PPN? I'll say it again, whoever is running the network doesn't have any poker sense whatsoever.

GIO you should either start answering to the problems or just stop posting. If you must keep posting get a name change Gio Can't Help. As Indy said "don't tell me what you are going to do, show me what you have done"

Indy - I don't believe that Rounders Row is getting any money from ELG for US players. I might be wrong but in knowing ELG isn't paying USA players I would find it hard to believe they are all of a sudden going to transfer cash from two rooms for USA residents. TJ will have to verify that if he can. I'd love to see it happen though then perhaps I and others can get the money owed to us from other rooms.

Do you also believe in any other fairy tales as well?

You missed the point. I was referring to TJ, not Gio. All the flaws and quirks mentioned have been mentioned many times in this thread and acknowledged many times. I'm sure ppn is probably as interested in your observations as the are in the observations of people who actually deposit and play. I've never heard of TJ before but i've heard the promises before and i'm tired of promises. I don't even know why he is posting as a rep in the ppn thread. why isn't he posting in the rounders row thread. as i said before, i like the colors and and card graphics they have there and i'll probably be playing there again so i hope he can round up more players for the rounders row room. i thought RR was supposed to bring in loads of new players, so far i have only seen a few.

good point. i prefer a 10 player table to an 8 player table. i don't see much point in having both. i can't imagine why they would even have an 8 player table in RR unless they asked for it.

What i don't get Toon, is why you haven't deposited if you have so much faith in TJ? hmm? why don't u put your money where your mouth is?

I assume most people would probably agree with you since that is the way it done on most poker sites. i haven't played enough in casinos to notice if that is the way they do it. but i have seen other sites do it the way ppn does. one of the things i like about ppn is that they don't do everything the traditional way or the way that most poker rooms do it.

what i don't understand is why other sites do it that way. why shouldn't i be able to raise again when the short stack goes all in with a small raise? is the player in the middle bet more than the short stack did? if i can usually check raise as first to act why should i be unable to raise the short stack if he goes all in. it doesn't work that way in cash game does it? they only reason for it that i can imagine is that the short stack would be called by more players and therefore make it more likely he will be eleminated so the tourney may finish sooner.

i like it the way ppn does it but i have an open mind about it. i hope someone can enlighten me.

what you say makes sense, unfortunately the freerollers don't appear to have much. there used to be at least 6 freerolls a week with over $150 total. many of the freerollers did very well. you have to have a 1:1 ratio of winnings to rake (very reasonable) to withdraw that money but they didn't play cash games. now does that make sense to you?

my idea is to bring back the rake races, ON STEROIDS. have a rake race every week. you can bet i'll get my piece. if you get a game going i'll be in it. ppn will get more rake. more active tables will be available. everybody wins.

i have player notes in the ppn room which i think carry over to the other rooms but in the RR room they are all blank. I wonder whose dumb idea that was? I would rather have the ppn graphics and my notes than a slightly prettier format and not keep my notes.

Because it takes away certain dynamics of the game. For example,you(stuck in the middle) and I are in a hand with another player who is short and for whatever reason I think there's a good chance he's going to put the rest of his chips in.The pot has 1100 in middle and he has 640 behind and I decide to bet 300,with the intention of either re-raising you if you call and other guy shoves, giving me a chance to add equity against a player who might not be paying attention or if its a thinking player it will look like a strong line. Now if me and you are both deep and lets say I bet 400 in that spot,maybe you want to peel one knowing if other guy shoves for 240 more thats all you will have to pay to see one more. Without this rule,that dynamic is gone.Both of these examples could be applied to a pre-flop(with obv different chip counts) or post flop scenario. When they go and alter the rules,it just turns people off.What's next? 5 card flops or maybe wild cards? Like toon said, they don't have any poker guys working for them. If they want to increase traffic or even begin turning a profit,they need to go by the standard rules.

Think i just realized the problem w/PPN.
After i start a table in multiple diff stakes and games i have players like GENO and BAMAFAN sitting down and winning $2 in 8 hands and running away.

no wonder this site cant get going,pathetic.
If either player is in this thread,id rather you just ask me for $2 and ill mail it to you somehow instead of being a HNR parasite.

What stakes were you playing to lose $2 in eight hands? Those guys are regulars on PPN but I don't know anything about their cash game play. IndyJones is someone who will sit and play for a long time normally. They were both in the freeroll and the rebuy tourneys tonight so maybe that is why they left. Some people don't like to play cash tables and tourneys at the same time.

The problem with PPN is mainly the lack of people now so you don't have many options for game selection.

Originally Posted by stlboy05
Edit- Another thing to add is, last tourny I played a player raised to 300 and next guy shoves for 375 or so, when it gets back to raiser he's able to iso-raise again WTF is that? His only option should be call or fold not raise.


http://www.pokerlistings.com/poker-r...-and-pot-limit

Example: Player A bets $100 and Player B raises $100 more, making the total bet $200. If Player C goes all in for less than $300 total (not a full $100 raise), and Player A calls, then Player B has no option to raise again, because he wasn't fully raised. (Player A could have raised, because Player B raised.)

I don't know the ins and outs of PPN so I can't address the poker experience of the software builders but I will suggest you sign up for the PPN group on Skype. Marcus (the head software developer) may often be found there. Chuck Kidd makes regular appearances. It is used as an IM client without the video and works much better than the chat window on the tables. Just not everyone uses it.

Honestly, I would rather see just a handful of tables offered until they have lots of players and are being asked for higher stakes. Right now .01/.02 to .50/1.00 FL, PL, NL Hold'em and Omaha seems more than enough and about 2 tables at each stake/player count, i.e., 2 tables of .01/.02 FL Hold'em at HU, 6 player, and 9 or 10 player. Maybe even just one table for now.

Having higher stakes tables that see zero action just seems to be self-defeating to me. Nice to dream about but wasted lobby space.

ty stlboy and SouthernPott for your well reasoned explanations. while i do not feel that tradition should always control, it probably should when multiple players have strong feelings about it.