This is TJ that used to be with Raise and Fold?

This sounds an awful lot like Everleaf, dontcha think?
Correct.

No disrespect meant with my reply but a rake race with just a handful of people isn't what a rake race is designed for. You benefited the most from any rake race PPN offered, you've said this yourself. So it makes sense you would want this promotion.

In the bigger scope of things, the majority of players want a shot at going to the WSOP either free or with a very small expense. You are the minority in this aspect. There's nothing wrong with that, it's your preference and choice and I can respect that.

The dynamics at Everleaf and PPN are striking different in my opinion. I say this because there was communication between the tournament area and the partners and with SM and the partners.

The disconnect at ELG was that upper management catered to a certain room and even if the rest of the rooms didn't want it, it was jammed down the pipe because of the one room. There was a lot of discontent between what was perceived as second tier rooms and the perceived main room.

Communication for the most part was good until there were problems. At that point as you and others have seen communication was nowhere to be found.

With PPN with us being the new guys and ones that had a plan to build the network and the room, a lot was promised. However when the amount of work needed to get things done was perceived as overwhelming or was looked upon as an expense it was ignored and set aside.

I don't know about anyone else but when you have a product out for the public to use and play in, it still needs to be serviced and maintained in a presentable, playable, non error way. This isn't the case and to us a real major concern.

Why would anyone want to play in tournaments you can't rebuy in, can't see cards, money deducted for sb/bb when it gets to their turn and a system that constantly crashed.

These are severe flaws that can't be ignored, but they were there long before we came to the network based upon posts here. We tried to get things fixed but as I said it was met with resistance and then no communication at all period.

The network has been down for 5 days plus and who knows what is really going on because I don't and I am not going to speculate but this isn't the way a network should operate.

Thanks for your comment.

sounds like a farewell speech TJ. too bad, since many of us were expecting you, whether you are rounders row or raise and fold or whatever, to swoop in and save the day. most of the flaws, while annoying, are not major and are mostly cosmetic. with so few U.S. facing sites in the market, I would not expectg minor flaws to keep hundreds of players away from the site.

I'm no expert but I would guess you need hundreds of players to make a site viable, and for that matter, to run a steps type wsop qualifier. but what do i know? I'm not in the business of trying to run a poker room. I'm just a player looking for a reason to play

It is not like I haven't criticized PPN for exactly those reasons numerous times ITT, but unfortunately the remarks were not taken serious from the powers that are. You'd think especially as a small network / start up those mute points would be given high priority but PPN has never bothered ... it is a miracle they even managed to attract some 2+2 members with their poor behavior.

As for yourself, you may want to check the fine print of your contract to take on legal measures.

a week now, and ppn still not up and running. i guess they forgot to say good-bye

@IndyJones - You really must be one of the most naive players I have come across in quite some time. You are more concerned about a rake race and think that would save PPN. I mean come on, do you truly believe having a handful of players sitting around a super micro table or two is the answer?

Aren't you in the least concerned that this network has been down for what 7-8 days now? All you've seen is some bizarre post from Gio and even he hasn't been back for what 4-5 days now?

Get your blinders off man and see what is really going on here.

@39suited - Good post about Everleaf and PPN. I think you hit the nail on the head with that summation. The only difference I would make is that PPN didn't have much of any traffic so the dollar loss can't be much. I would venture the majority of the money on the network at least from the original rooms is freeroll money anyway.

@TJ - I have to give credit where credit is due. You answered my questions/comments and didn't shy away from answering. I've liked that about you from the get go. It's a darn same you get mixed up with these networks that are just a mess. While one looked at your post as a goodbye of sorts and a give up, I read it differently.

I read passion and a desire to do well. I don't blame you in this matter. It's quite clear where the blame lies here. Keep your head up and I hope you land at a network that you can really do well at.

@Chuck, PPN Management, Gio, Whoever else works at PPN - You guys are real aholes. I find it funny that Chuck Kidd the owner of Pic Club and PPN has no balls at all to come reply to a post on 2+2 of which he pays to advertise. I also find it funny that while the network you own has been down for 7-8 days, you sit and post away on Facebook. What the hell kind of man are you?

Whoever is running this network which I surmise can't be Chuck unless he is really this fn stupid has no clue at all. How in the world can you send a rep into this topic after the network was down I think 2 days if I looked at the posts correctly and then 5-6 days later with the network still down, he is nowhere to be found.

I bet we could get 3 or 4 guys here and run this network better than what Chuck has in place now. It is glaring they have no sense of how to run a poker room at all.

I would be shocked and I mean really shocked if this network was online ever again. Even if it does come online, how could anyone trust to play there? If they don't communicate with room owners as TJ said, how can players trust them? I haven't seen a single player of this network come forth and say they received a communication from PPN.

Well I suppose there will be those freerollers that would flock back at the promise of some I am sorry or we are back type freeroll because they can't post up $500 at a real network room.

I can only speak for myself and I can be outspoken at times but people really need to get their heads out of the sand here. Then again, if they have nothing deposited, what are they really losing out on? Freeroll money that hasn't been rolled over.

Marcus, the head programmer, announced on Skype that PPN will be back up and running and he is working on it. No time frame listed.

Since we waited a year from the time PPN left Cake, I would like to believe we can expect them to keep trying. It would be nice if we had a few announcements regarding the issues at hand and progress being made but we've faced much worse in dealing with poker sites.

Chuck has never posted on 2+2 to my knowledge so I wouldn't expect him to start now but we could use a few updates from Gio a little more often.

You can call me naive(wouldn't be the first time) but Chuck has been one of the more available owners. When he is on, he will actually chat with you on Skype. We are quick to jump to the worst possible conclusions when things go wrong in online poker and it is justified. I have no idea what is happening at PPN but I am sure it is as disappointing and trying to Chuck as it is to us. Running this kind of operation has to be expensive and time consuming, even when things go well.

While many of us have ideas on things we would like to see happen, actually setting up and running a site like this is a lot more complicated than we are imagining. It isn't just running a poker room, but making sure it is secure and generating a profit in the long run.

How much profit do you make if there is next to no traffic for over a year?

you make some good points Pott. Online poker players are not known for their patience, especially when faced with near silence. Actually PPN players should be expected to be more patient, partly because of the history you mention, but also because, face it, it's not as if we really wanted to play or as if perhaps we even noticed until the Sunday freeroll didn't run.

The obvious gist of TJ's posts is that the kiddies, no pun intended, in the "PPN Family of Poker Rooms" are squabbling, even over the responsibility for fixing whatever is the current problem it seems.

I would expect there are some members of the family who would like to address the problems but don't feel they can do so without airing still more dirty laundry. While they may ultimately tell us what the technical problem has been, I wouldn't expect to get any official word on internal problems that may be causing the delay in fixing it, that is no way to run a business.

a handful of players sitting at two tables certainly isn't an answer but would at least be a start. It is better for a prospective player to see paltry traffic than none at all. it would also get some action from the vast majority of players who, while perhaps not knowing or caring about a rake race, would join an active table but are afraid to start up a game.

I won't argue with your speculation that the majority of players wanted the wsop promotion, I don't have any data on that and I doubt that you would. did you even have 10 players sign up for the events? I know that if I had put any money into it i would feel ripped off.

I think you underestimate the number of players who have little interest in the wsop. there may be some big time poker players who have an interest but how many of those will you find at ppn/rounder's row? one? two? When you get to know a lot of online poker players you find that many of them are shut ins or disabled people who find it hard to go to a casino.

a lot of people who are able to go to a casino are don't want to invest the time or expense of traveling. most people who go to a casino know not to bother if they arent' willing to take $200 or more, yet every online poker rooms know they need to offer micro stakes tables.

I am physically able to go 1500 miles to play in a wsop event and sit at a single table for 14 or more hours a day, bored to death 90% of the time, for 4 or 5 days straight. Maybe you would find that enjoyable, i wouldn't. I have spend many long weekends in competitions that went on all day; you really have to crave the money or glory to do it.

online poker has spoiled me. I'm bored if i'm not multi-tabling. I often spend several hours a day on the tables, but rarely without a nap in the middle. you don't see many people napping at the wsop but you probably see a lot of people who wish they were.

It seems the http://picclub dot com (PICClub) domain has expired. I was waiting just a bit longer to get my money into something else, maybe Rouders Row, and get it out of PIC. I have attempted to contact support via e-mail and through support at PICClub several times with no response. I can no longer check for responses at PIC obviously since they no longer exist. Any suggestions?

that is unfortunate. i can't bring up pic club from my bookmark either. I don't think i had any money left on there, maybe $10. It had been handy for moving a little at a time to ppn to get reload bonuses. How much did you have at pic club?

And so PPN dies with a whimper and not a bang

More than $400....I am really ticked right about now!

sharing some skype....

what ever happens happens.. we have had i good ride with chuck. and i thank him for that. but i hope we can do it again...
[5/23/2013 7:59:12 PM] Ed: It's not Over
[5/23/2013 7:59:39 PM] Ed: was assured we would be dealing soon!
[5/23/2013 9:37:03 PM] Chuck Kidd: itis far from over
[5/23/2013 9:37:18 PM] Chuck Kidd: i do not give up very easy and you all know that

@indyjones - Perhaps you have forgotten how many people played in WSOP Q's at Stars and Tilt when they were open to USA. You are definitely in the minority. Ask poker players what their goal is and the majority say to win a bracelet or play at the wsop.

Also note that the prize packages paid out covered entry and a few grand for travel expenses. If I recall Stars and Tilt die $12K packages.

Look at the people on Merge and other networks that people are clamoring over getting to the tournament.

@ Chuck Kidd - I find it really deplorable you have time for Facebook and Skype chats but can't come here on 2+2 and let people know what is going on.

Do you think all the members of your poker network are in some kind of skype chat or have access to you?

I've never heard of such stupidity. I guess this explains why a few of the people that still post in this thread are replying as they are. it speaks volumes.

What about Pic Club Chuck? Why would Pic Club be down as well? How are people to get paid out what they are owed in their Pic Club accounts?

You don't sound serious and any legitimate business owner doesn't pull the stunts you do.

The only and I mean the only reason you have these minions riding your coat tails is the freeroll money you gave them.

You sir are a total buffoon and who in their right mind should trust you ever again?

Quick answer... NOBODY!

@TJ - Any information you can share, have you heard anything at all?

toon84;38667579@indyjones - Perhaps you have forgotten how many people played in WSOP Q's at Stars and Tilt when they were open to USA. You are definitely in the minority. Ask poker players what their goal is and the majority say to win a bracelet or play at the wsop.

Also note that the prize packages paid out covered entry and a few grand for travel expenses. If I recall Stars and Tilt die $12K packages.


Really? you are comparing PPN with two of the biggest online poker sites in the history of online poker sites?

Of course I haven't forgotton how big they were. That's why they could pull it off and that's why Rounders Row couldn't. That was the point I was making for any readers capable of understanding the obvious.

Did you play in the RR wsop qualifier? I don't think so. have you even deposited on this site?

I'm not saying it is bad to try it if RR is prepared to refund any player entry fees when it doesn't get off the ground. But if you want to get players to play, how about a promotion players want to play? So, nice try TJ - is that all you got?

I really doubt if the majority of online poker players say their goal is to win a piece of jewelry. It would be interesting to see a poll on that. My goal is pass the time at a game that is fun when I win. I would like to have more poker fun but I have a job, and a life. It is just a game after all. I used to enjoy playing basketball but I never tried to win an NBA championship ring. that would be stupid.

Sorry toon84 nothing to report and we haven't heard anything from Chuck or anyone else associated with PPN.

If we receive any updates, I'll be sure to share.

Thanks for your question,

TJ

Without a network that is functional, what promotion would you like us to do?

[5/23/2013 9:37:03 PM] Chuck Kidd: itis far from over
[5/23/2013 9:37:18 PM] Chuck Kidd: i do not give up very easy and you all know that

No need to repost that Skype chat over and over again. Especially since there is no progress, right?

I only reposted it from the previous post because a question was asked by someone who obviously had not read the previous page. It seemed rude to refer him to the post number when I could just give him the answer he was looking for.