Is it me or there really are 0 players on cash tables atm in PPN?

Can someone explain me how exactly things work here. Is it the same or similar as the PIV network? (one cashier for several networks)? And could you tell me which networks are behind No Tilt Poker, Maniacal Poker, Lounge Lizard Poker and Cheap Seats?
Thanks

That is still better than merge, which never lets you know when a player is sitting out in a MTT?

I'm perfectly happy to get positive answers. I just want answers to my specific questions, which haven't yet been forthcoming. And there is nothing wrong with expecting the TOS to match the answers. After all, I can only be confident of what the TOS say, not rumors or forum posts. Why in the world would I, or anyone, put their money to faith, not fact? This is business, not religion. Contracts are binding.

And no, I can't necessarily get my money out fast if I don't like the way it turns out. If I believe the TOS - and why wouldn't I - they will confiscate all my money, including my deposit money, if I try to take out any money before I have played through my entire deposit - which is pretty hard to do on a site with so little traffic currently.

(And let's not yet talk about the fees and minimums for deposit and withdrawal.)

This is one network (PPN) with multiple skins and just one cashier for all. You have to register for a user account just once, and then can use it on any of the skins (except maybe pokeroomUSA - still waiting for an answer from support on that one).

It is not like PIV, where you have one account to play on several different poker networks.

I got in with no problems this morning but now I am getting a software update failure and I am unable to login.

Anyone else?

This is now in the TOS so its much more clear and informative.

"16. Any amount withdrawn by the Player shall be forwarded to the Player within seven (7) days of the withdraw pending the results of satisfactory anti-fraud processes. Funds can be withdrawn via check, wire transfer or other methods that may be offered. We reserve the right to request additional forms of identification before sending a withdrawal. All deposits must be rolled over one time before any withdrawal requests are made. If a player account is closed for cause or a withdrawal is demanded and made before the Terms & Conditions are met, all bonus money paid will be forfeited as well as any money earned by wagering will be forfeited."

This is to address an account being closed due to some reason such as cheating or a player demands we close his account we can recoup our money.

Here is another section dealing with bonus that has been listed on the website that was added to the TOS for clarity.

Bonuses

When a player receives a Cash Bonus he must meet all the attached requirements prior to requesting withdrawal. The requirements are attached to varying; specific promotional offers and cannot be changed. The player has 60 days from the issuance of said bonuses to meet the attached requirement. Players are required to have fulfilled all requirements prior to any requested withdrawal. If a player requests a withdrawal prior to completing the requirement, only his original deposit less any sustained net losses will be returned.

Deposit Bonus Play through:

"To convert the available Bonus to Real money, Player must generate 5 times the Bonus dollar amount in Rake. Releases of $5 from the total bonus will come when every $25 of the total in rake generation has been met. Example: A $100.00 Bonus would require $500.00 in rake before a total withdrawal of those funds can be made. With $5.00 being released for every $25.00 in rake generated." Free Roll (and other 'Promotional' winnings)

Play through:

Must earn $1.00 in rake for every $1.00 released for withdrawal. Total amount earned in tournament must be cleared in total prior to release of those winnings. A $50.00 Free Roll win will be cleared dollar for dollar but not released until the $50.00 total of rake is earned.

In both cases, previous account balance and other monies earned in buy-in events and/or deposited will not be subject to the play through restrictions. If a player sustains losses totaling the Free Roll amount won, the restrictions are cleared from his account. Hence, a $50.00 FR win that results in a player's total account balance of $150.00 - for example - should he sustain $50.00 or more in table losses (not P2P's or withdrawals, etc.) the play through restrictions are lifted on the rest of his account balance.

Once again I think this will address your issues.

Gio

This has been corrected... thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Gio

Thanks for your quick attention to my questions and concerns. Your TOS revisions make your intentions clearer now, but I think some of the wording is still a little uncertain. I'd like to suggest these changes:

Change this:
to this:
"16. Any amount withdrawn by the Player shall be forwarded to the Player within seven (7) days of the withdraw pending the results of satisfactory anti-fraud processes. Funds can be withdrawn via check, wire transfer or other methods that may be offered. We reserve the right to request additional forms of identification before sending a withdrawal. All deposits must be rolled over one time before any portion of the deposit is withdrawn. If a player account is closed for cause or a withdrawal of any remaining portion of the player deposit is demanded and made before the roll-over requirements are met, an amount equal to all deposit bonus money paid plus any money earned by wagering will be forfeited from the Player account balance before the withdrawal is processed."

This allows a player to withdraw earnings before fully playing through the deposit. For instance, if a player wins a tournament for a few hundred or thousand dollars, he would be allowed to withdraw those winnings while requiring an amount equal to his un-played-through deposit to remain on account. You will need a system in place for player deposit money similar to what you need for bonus money - it is available for play but un-played-through balances are locked up from withdrawal until released through rollover.

If you want to build traffic and encourage player deposits, you really have to make this change. No one is going to make a significant deposit (such as $500 to take advantage of your 35% rakeback for life offer) if they can't withdraw any earnings on their play until the entire deposit is rolled over (which could take many months considering your current level of traffic).

By the way, I disagree with the policy that the player must forfeit the money they earned in addition to bonus money. This money came from play against other players, not from the house. You would essentially be stealing money from players. In the case of account closure for cause, this money should be forfeited and returned to the other affected players. But in the case of a player asking for his deposit back before completing play through, the player should be able to get his winnings as well, and only forfeit money that came from the house - bonus money. After all, you did make your profit (the rake) on his play as well.

So really I think the TOS should read:
"16. Any amount withdrawn by the Player shall be forwarded to the Player within seven (7) days of the withdraw pending the results of satisfactory anti-fraud processes. Funds can be withdrawn via check, wire transfer or other methods that may be offered. We reserve the right to request additional forms of identification before sending a withdrawal. All deposits must be rolled over one time before any portion of the deposit is withdrawn. If a withdrawal of any remaining portion of the player deposit is demanded by the player and made before the roll-over requirements are met, an amount equal to all deposit bonus money paid will be forfeited from the Player account balance before the withdrawal is processed. If a player account is closed for cause, an amount equal to all deposit bonus money paid plus any money earned by wagering will be forfeited from the Player account balance before a withdrawal is processed, and the entire Player account balance may be forfeited in accordance with other provisions of this Terms of Service."

I think you are also making a mistake in your cash bonus policy, where a player loses his winnings in addition to his earned cash bonus amounts if he makes any withdrawal prior to completion of the bonus period. Once again, this is like stealing from the players, and I'm not sure what you are protecting yourself from. It is much more fair and more likely to attract new players if you have a simple policy that just says that a player loses any unreleased bonus amount if they make a withdrawal before completion of the bonus period (PokerStars does it this way), like this:

"Bonuses

When a player receives a Cash Bonus he must meet all the attached requirements prior to requesting withdrawal to retain the bonus in active status. The requirements are attached to varying, specific promotional offers and cannot be changed. The player has 60 days from the issuance of said bonuses to meet the attached requirement. If a player requests a withdrawal prior to completing the requirement, the bonus will immediately become expired and any unreleased portion of the bonus will be forfeited."

I'd also like to suggest a little rewording of the Free Roll play-through provisions, just for clarity:

"Free Roll and Other 'Promotional' Winnings Play Through:

"Player must generate $1.00 in rake for every $1.00 in winnings to be released for withdrawal. Total amount earned in winnings must be cleared in total prior to release of those winnings. For example, a $50.00 Free Roll win will be cleared dollar for dollar but not released until the $50.00 total of rake is generated.

In both cases, previous account balance and other monies earned in buy-in events and/or deposited will not be subject to the play through restrictions. If a player sustains losses totaling the Free Roll or Promotional amount won, the restrictions are cleared from his account. For example, in the case of a $50.00 FR win that results in a player's total account balance of $150.00, should he sustain $50.00 or more in table losses (not P2P's or withdrawals, etc.) the play through restrictions are lifted and do not apply to the remaining $100.00 or less of his account balance."

I think you need to review all the qualifier tournaments for such errors. Another instance: #30078 on 4/25 awards a seat to #30070 on 4/21.

A few feature requests:

1. From the main lobby, Find Registered In Tournaments. (Helps if disconnected or logged off to find and open tournaments already registered for.)

2. If tournament start time passes without enough entrants to start, give some sort of pop-up notice to registered players.

3. Show some sort of indicator or highlighting in the game and tournament lists in the main lobby for games where one is seated and tournaments where one is registered or seated.

Thanks PokerXanadu, I have forwared your suggestions to our poker room manager for review. I will post his reply or action taken later today.

Gio

I pulled the list down while we review the settings. We will have it back up today in the correct format.

Gio

Thanks PX for submitting these suggestions and for being active here. Other than Indy there have not been a lot of positive suggestions recently. Of course, some of us tried in the very beginning but became quickly frustrated for a variety of reasons. I think that your involvement comes along at very opportune time with Gio being more able to respond.

I'd also like to thank Gio and Chuck for their continued efforts at improvement of the site and for putting up with the above mentioned frustration. I am beginning to feel, as I hoped early on, that this site has a real chance.

Groo, All the suggested ideas posted here were taken into consideration, we were just limited to what we could say or respond to here at 2+2 until we started advertising with them.

Keep the good ideas coming...and thanks for playing with us. Chuck has spent a bunch of time and money to get this going and the problems we had early on by being on other networks really limited what we could do.

I can tell you that as a poker player 1st and foremost Chuck hasn't given up on PPN and is in it for the long haul. His software team is working on some really cool stuff right now as well as responding to the suggestions and issues we read here.

And FYI when you see PPNCEO playing at even micro stakes tables it really is Chuck thats donating his money... I didn't say he was a good player but he does love to play when he finds the time.

He reads this every day so your ideas go direct to the top here.

Gio

I, too, hope they have a real chance. The site can fill the current void of a US-facing site that has decent enough software and quick and reliable withdrawals. I think they can be a success by tweaking the current shortcomings along with promotional campaigns to increase traffic. While I don't recommend that any US players put at risk a significant portion of their money on any current offshore site, I could become a fan of this site for real-money play currently.

That's why we love him!!! lol

I was about to make some snide remark before i moved on to catch up with the thread. I'm glad i didn't because, reading on, I agree that the TOS is prety scary, and yes your well thought out suggestions would help clarify just how harsh the TOS really is.

My only experience was with the loyalty bonus given to returning players, which was liberally awarded and even extended to give players more time to earn it. However, I do not think my faith was misplaced as i imagine that chuck would make some kind of adjustment to avoid a particularly harsh result. I recently made a deposit for the reload bonus and now i'm wondering whether i should have made a smaller deposit to be assured of being able to satify all requirements.

It is a little confusing that their are multiple skins on PPN, one of which is called PPNpoker.eu For the immediate future all you need to know is that PPNpoker.eu is the only skin anyone is playing on.

OK, I can live with the glitches, this is my major gripe:

To get PPN to run I have to get past this window:



And I have to uncheck the box that says "Protect my computer from viruses ...", otherwise, PPN starts, but it won't run the Update, and it won't run at all.

Why does this window even come up in the first place? I have a standard WinXP system and NO OTHER program I have ever run ever asks me to do this.

I had the same situation when i played on my laptop, which is windows XP. It is a scary thing but i played for months with no problems to my puter. I recently switched to a newer windows version and i simply have to click "allow".

Gio

You have the winners of the 3rd and 2d place rake races playing their head up matches against chuck on April 21 and first place playing on April 26. If i'm not mistaken all three should be played on April 26.

So Gio is the player base growing?

I'm sure you realize that there's nothing wrong with your computer. It's just a security feature found in Windows XP. The fact that the window pops up when you try to run the client has something to do with the way the poker client is coded. When I initially installed the client, and when it has updated, Norton has flagged it as malicious. I just have to tell Norton to allow it. Play on.

Let me google that for you.

yep, i suppose they were doing some kind of update