RING GAME - milestone hands every several months, regional vpp races, every **** promotion every time

SNG and MTT get shieeeeeet, leaderboards dont sum up to these

I realise that of course, I just figured that there was no proof that they were sending back moneys, in that case Stars has no grounds to take this action. If there is proof it is still a grey area imo, but I can understand Stars their decision in that case.

Yeah for sure no real way to prove it 100%. But is it beyond reasonable doubt? Maybe it is maybe it isn't. That's for stars to decide.

Quote:
Hi,
we were obviously playing together to gain vpps, but we thought it was okay as long as these tournaments are played out regularly and not all-in every hand (except for the last couple of tournaments after we got this message).
didn't realize it was wrong. That is part of why we are refunding the rake at the same time as taking away the VPPs/FPPs, as opposed to solely confiscating the VPPs/FPPs. I am sorry to take away the VPPs, but unfortunately this is a clear case of what we consider VIP Program abuse.

We are refunding the fees from 657 games. The total fees were $8111.50US. We are taking away 44,613.25
Regards,
Petr
Quote:
Hello Petr,

I understand that youVPPs, and 156,146.37 FPPs.

In the future, please feel free to email if you are in doubt what is an acceptable way to grind VPPs.

Sincerely,


Chris J
PokerStars VIP Team

Id be willing to give 2:1 that Stars will give you back the VPP points, Stars is going to Stars. Im sure just a matter of a manager being made aware of the situation. They'd give you the points anyway, regardless of how horrible of a business decision it would be not to.

Congrats to all the SNE this year. A special good cheer to the 6max SNG'ers representing!

The Top 50 Yearly VPP totals are available here.

277 players have earned over 1,000,000 VPPs in 2011.
287 players are on pace.

3,075,245 Bjoerni89
2,581,939 azntracker
2,250,043 AironVega
2,186,355 Berndsen12
2,055,649 1Bunn
1,748,939 xxXFITEXxx
1,686,575 Isildur1
1,577,715 acoimbra
1,500,088 showtime
1,500,001 fricirics
1,497,055 kala77
1,476,131 chisness
1,383,909 Odd_Oddsen
1,378,662 Bruut99
1,303,014 Die_Broke999
1,261,142 ocropTi
1,250,217 poker_in_pb
1,250,056 willyBeer22
1,250,023 PedroKL
1,141,285 Xereles
1,121,630 pistons87
1,090,801 oscarleon
1,061,661 twin-caracas
1,051,192 horvyjoe
1,038,531 Duckslayer2k
1,038,084 anguila
1,028,971 Tpirahna
1,028,669 ShandeC
1,025,750 k345
1,021,747 TenerifeBel
1,020,060 innerpsy
1,018,942 dealer666
1,017,985 Alphafoil
1,016,255 thecooler992
1,015,441 dombomain33
1,011,788 Brokerface
1,011,505 El_Cañonero
1,009,629 spacegravy
1,006,512 titcar
1,006,329 jamesgav19
1,002,805 gutter23
1,002,549 badblood1
1,002,506 neomorf
1,001,587 AndrewBoccia
1,001,025 ILS007
1,000,453 pappadogg
1,000,314 PokerPro333
1,000,090 antchev
1,000,055 GodlikeRoy
1,000,048 2w392y41ur
1,000,043 sundalyonly
1,000,039 house_advntg
1,000,037 YaDaDaMeeN21
1,000,034 Wet-DreaMer
1,000,034 krissyb24
1,000,033 11_king_11
1,000,032 JTDStreet
1,000,025 sly caveat
1,000,020 _salaz4r_
1,000,013 Jackal69
1,000,004 MelowYellow

---PACE--- 997,032

994,763 MeleaB
970,049 JoeIngram1
956,720 phasE89

Please email vipclub@pokerstars.com to have your screen name added to the list.

Did you stop listing the VPP count of those SNE chasers who didn't want to be listed?

Are the 10 people on pace all anonymous?

Simply: No.

They still had to pay the previous 172k. Why is it so hard to understand this?

Or are you saying that if they played these SNGs in the middle of the year (as opposed to "only did it at the end"), it would be ok but now it is not? God, where did your logical thinking go?

To get SNE you have to earn 1 mil VPPs. As far as I know there are no rules that would stipulate the exact way how they are earned. If you can earn 1 mil VPPs in a month, you are free to do so (at least I am not aware there would be any rule against this).

That is an unfair ruling by Stars.

As long as they weren't splitting losses, there is no problem, and with no transfers done between them, Stars can't just rule that they were going to transfer.

Were they doing it to gain vpps? Yes. That doesn't mean it is a breach of the rules. It is very conceivable that they both said, "We're so close to SNE, let's just get this over with. Sure it's higher stakes than I usually play and I could lose a lot of money, but fk it. I don't care. I just want to be done and I'll probably own this clown anyway, because he sucks. I've been wanting to do a challenge for a while. Might as well just do it now and get the benefit of speeding up SNE."

Is it likely they were going to split the money? Maybe. Doesn't matter. Stars can't prove it and it's conceivable that they wouldn't, so Stars needs to either reverse the decision or give them extra time to finish SNE.

As has been mentioned, especially in light of the 70 billion hand joke, where there was no doubt that they were cheating, this is absolute BS. With a history of letting things slide that are obvious cheating, they can't go after these guys for probably cheating.

Really? There is no time left, if they dont cheat the system they don't get the milestones and added bonuses. Mid year they still have plenty of time and the games would make more sense.
But would stars have enforced this had it happened mid year? Me don't know but in that lies the issue! The first guy answer yes we did this to get vpp and we did not know it was wrong. But now they taking the we have a feud stance? Convenient!

But of course it is for the VPPs. 90% of SNEs grind for the VPPs. So what? Unless there is a rule "you have to pick one game for the year and that will be the only game you can earn VPPs in" this all does not make sense. They did not cheat. Cheating = breaking rules. They never broke any rule AND did not cause any harm to anyone

yeah he did, he knew he had no energy/traffic to finish it at fifty50, so he angleshoot it.
1. play hus - get sne, milestone + 5x next year
2. dont play hus - dont get sne, milesone + 5x next year

seems straight forward for me, but i dont care about it anyways, if someone is able to get 300k/month he shoould have sne by june.

The stars rep pointed out the rule in the VIP programme they had manipulated. Were they sharing profits ? If not then no voilation but just to jump into games up to 5 times above your normal limits and only vs someone u know. Come on u got to be just more than a little naive to think they had intentions beyond vpp manipulation.
Truth be that stars hates SNEs though which is sad.

Funny how stars doesn't allow 2 players to pay MORE money to them after these 2 players have payed over $150,000 to use their software this year alone to play poker when its not even hurting any poker players.They also have no proof if they are sharing losses etc. but they allow 2 players to blatantly abuse the 70 bil promotion that took $70k from deserving customers with no consequences.

Sigh, you apparently know better then me how many energy and what traffic I have on Fifty50...

If I wouldnt agree to play HUs, I would finish my grind on Fifty50 by 30th December.

We were playing our first session 26th December and because no one from Stars had a problem with it (I couldnt imagine why would they have), I decided to spend more time with my family during the holidays, playing just 5k VPPs/day and counting on the next HU session of the challenge with "justDgmt" on 29th December (but we postponed it to the next day)

Stars know that I am able to easily grind 15k VPPs a day so thats why they are reconsidering the situation (I hope).

I have outside the poker world heard about companies treating their customers bad.

Usually these companies don't live very long afterwards as customer care is essential.

Anyone having raked the necessary amount to become SNE deserves the title - also if they have a deal with a friend splitting the losses be it for one session or for the whole year. The only reason for Stars to deny this is to save some bucks. What they forget is that there are plenty of other poker rooms that will welcome a new mid-high stakes grinder and some will move you to the top level without first earning the required points.

Shame on Stars for even trying to pull this trick on you.

I sympathise with you guys but I think Stars made the correct decision in this situation and had no real choice.

I think the problem with the milestone hands guys was that they technically didn't break the rules of the promotion so even though they wanted to DQ them they couldn't. What you guys did, assuming you profit/loss shared which I'm sorry but seems hugely likely, did break VIP club rules.

Having said that I think they should cut you guys some slack and allow you both a few extra days to make SNE as you were both likely to get it before you played these HUs.

Hope you both get given a shot at SNE this year.

since you both didn't know, paid rake, and had no evidence of transferring money, they should at least offer some time (maybe a week?) to play to compensate for the misunderstanding..

so i'm not able to grind more vpps with a friend at a higher stake if we both pay the rake?
are we not free to play whatever stakes we want?

the guys who won the billionth hand thing we're playing each other, not paying rake, and got to keep their win. meh. gl.
that's bogus.

I don't think playing $1k HU SNGs is that outrageous given getting SNE was worth a $20k bonus this year and another $20k ish if they kept it next year.

Let them keep all the VPPs and just take off all the FPPs earned during that time (~157.5k) and the percentage of the bonus that it made up ~45k/200k = 22.5% (=$4.5k). Only Phase and justDgmt really know if they would of dumped back and its nearly impossible to prove otherwise. Put them on final warnings and move on.

show me one post where i stated i'm in favour of WC. All you will find are posts where i am in favour of WTA and even then I will most certainly lose value but i think it is fair at least.

and i never claimed to be a good player, especially not at your stakes. I'm well aware that I am at max. a very mediocre reg when it's coming to NL600 and above. That's the reason I don't play to many hands at these levels. However I am one of the best NL200 players (where 85% of my volume is anyways) and my results confirm that every day.

I will lose some value, but it will not be 50%, moar like something around 10%. FYI i did not do SNE this year. FYI 75% of my action is shorthanded play so I can easily go to euro sites and play shorthanded

i wouldn't call it a ****load but it is and will be a decent pay. But I'm sure he understands that even if he pretends not to...






and gl in gaining those VPPs back, dgmt and phase. I don't know any of the guys in person but given how dgmt presents himself in teh forums I hardly doubt he is ever going to share wins/losses with a guy he does not like. Doesn't seem like his style... IMO

My vote is for Phase getting Elite.

Really...I have never been even close to achieving SNE, poker is just a hobby for me and I know that this issue has been discussed in this thread for a number of years. You are much more serious than me about poker, forums and so on, so I do not believe you knew that "flipping in 5kHUSNG" to get more than 100% rakeback on those flips is not allowed. OK, you didn't flip, you just angleshoot that sentence.

If you just wanted to get VPPs and you didn't care risking 50 buy ins, why didn't you just sit in any 5kHUSNG and play with whoever wants to play with you? Why don't you do that now? You have time to achieve SNE playing 5k HUSNGs with anyone. Why do you just play them to help an enemy achieve SNE with you?

Or, if you want to prove that you don't care, why don't you arrange a challenge with Isildur1?

phase- Right now you have action at 1k HUSNG hypers, go and play

wtf? please tell me how can some1 achieve more then 60% rakeback on Stars

maybe because I dont have a $500k bankroll to play on 5k HUSnGs?
why should I sit to those headsups now? do you understand that I do not intend to lose hundreds of thousands of dollars playing with top HU regs just because Stars took my VPPs away?

FWIW I played with "justDgmt" only $500-$1000 buyins and I reasoned my acts previously.

wtf, I am really not sure if you are just trolling or if you misunderstood the whole situation.

I wont be playing anymore today, I have just recieved mail from Chris:


I guess I will travel to my friends, celebrate NYE and wait till the final decision.

It seems like you don't get it.

Phase could have easily continued to play his normal game, where he does make a profit even before rakeback. Instead he decide to play another game which saves him time but will cost him money, yes it actually costs him money.
So why would he do it? Obviously because he feel like the time he save is worth more than the money he lose.

So with a couple of days left he have to decide whether he want to continue to play like normal or find someone who who doesn't have a too big edge on him and set up a match. It's either A or B, he can't mix both of them because then he don't save enough time so it doesn't make any sense.
Unless Phase is delusional he won't find anyone to play him, unless the other person have some kind of incentive. The way stars VIP program works you need to make less profit in the game the closer you get to the next VIP level, because you either make it or you don't. So the only personal that mets his criterion would have to be someone close to the next stage in the VIP program.

You know when Stars announce their milestone hands, would you say that everyone that usually 4-6 table but now 24 table is abusing the system as well? They accept less profit ingame due to the bonus system.
That's what every rakeback grinder does, they aim for the highest hourly rate and accept that they will make less at the tables.

As I've stated above it makes perfect sense for Phase to play this guy even without some kind transfer afterwards. Since we have no proof what so ever that they agreed on something like that, he should be seen as innocent until proven guilty.