They actually increased rake man. Changes in structure + 3$ cap for 5 players means much higher rake for 6max players at stakes where the cap is 3$.

Strike day anyone? What is stars most profitable rake day? The lets strike on that and if that doesn't work, strike again. Also I'm sure there will be someone on 2p2 who will have close links with the new FTP who can take awesome advantage of this market share, no?

STRIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! anyone know how to setup a facebook campaign and we go on a sit out strike?

Please see this thread.. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...anges-1145349/

lets get a campaign up and get more than the casual 2p2 reader involved!

We should pay someone to make the script which:
-out sitout with 5-6 players and post in the chat: "rake is so high now, it's not profitable to play even for way above average player"
-if there 3-4 players sit in, the script sits in and post in the chat: "rake is at decent level now, we can play"

That will both increase awareness of rake and reduce Stars profit significantly if many high volume 6max guys use the script.

I used to enjoy reading this thread

This is disgusting imo, great way to reward your loyal players making you millions a year and happily promoting you to their friends etc.

I built up alot of trust for Stars, and this has untied all of that, to the point I am even going to keep less money on their site incase they do a fulltilt over night.

It has to be new senior management or something. Maybe Howard Lederer got a new job?

I dont even play cash games, and this has pissed me off.

I don't get how some of you players are shocked at the move away from dealt. That was essentially "hinted". The anger should be at the lack of a serious rake reduction or additonal multipiers.

If your are striking and complaining about dealt rewards, good luck with that. But if you are striking and complaining and form a unified front to get a serious rake reduction and/or multiplier that would have traction.

If you think PS is thumbing their nose at you over the rewards, guess again, they are laughing their asses off because you care more about rewards than rake.

THE RAKE IS TOO FREAKING HIGH !!!

Yeah and lowering rb is also raising rake, so don't get too excited about that either champ.

Some clarification form another site, PS rep.


Change from ‘Dealt’ to ‘Weighted Contributed’

VPP earnings at ring games will be calculated using the ‘weighted contributed’ method, changing from the ‘dealt’ method. The weighted contributed method awards VPPs to each player based on how much they contribute to the pot. You can read more about the weighted contributed calculation here: New VPP Method -Important PokerStars Ring Game Changes

Ring game players will be affected differently by this change depending on their play style. Some players will earn VPPs faster while others will earn them more slowly. The total number of VPPs given out as a result of each hand is the same using the ‘weighted contributed’ and ‘dealt’ calculations.

While each player is different, overall the weighted contributed method will reward players with lower VIP statuses more and players with higher VIP statuses less. In summary this change will make the distribution of VIP Club benefits more balanced, less top heavy toward Supernova+ VIPs. Players earning a higher VIP status will still earn points faster and gain more and better options for redeeming FPPs.

Weighted Contributed vs. Winner Take All

Winner take all (WTA) is another method of awarding VPPs that was suggested by some players. We considered WTA, but decided that weighted contributed is a superior method of allocating VPPs after a thorough evaluation of both options.
The WTA method results in significantly more volatility in player VPP earnings from session to session and day to day. This can make it more difficult for players to plan their play based on expected VPP earnings. Players may also psychologically feel that it is unfair that when taking a bad beat they lose not only the pot but also all VPP earnings for the hand. On a larger scale, players experiencing a session with particularly negative results may not appreciate earning far fewer VPPs than anticipated in addition to losing funds at the tables.

We did review the differences in how the weighted contributed and winner take all methods would award VPPs to players in the long run. While individual players would earn VPPs at different rates due to differing play styles, as a group the members of each VIP level would see no material difference in the number of VPPs earned between the weighted contributed and winner take all methods.

Changes to Ring Game Rake

Rake Calculation Method

Ring game rake will now be calculated as a true percentage using round half to even rounding. This is a change from the past incremental rake calculations.
The change to true percentage rake will make rake calculation more transparent and intuitive for players. Instead of three rake components (%, increment, and cap) we will have two components (% and cap).

If rake caps and percentages were to remain the same, changing to true percentage rake would result in an increase in rake taken due to the change in rounding. However, we are altering rake percentages downward for all stakes and betting types, reduced from 5% to 4.50% or less. The change to true percentage rake has the most impact on microstakes games. Similarly, the reduction in rake percentages and/or caps is greatest at microstakes games.

As an example, the rake at $0.25/$0.50 NLHE with 6 players dealt in used to be $0.05 for each $1.00 in the pot up to a maximum of $3.00. The new rake for such hands will be 4.5% up to $3.00. The below table shows the old rake and new rake for these types of hands with four different pot sizes:



Rake caps have also been changed, some lowered and some increased, to make them more consistent across different stakes, game types, and currencies.
Rake percentages and caps are being set such that we expect a small overall decrease in site rake assuming that play remains the same. You can see the new rake tables at the bottom of this post.

Fixed Limit Rake with Two Players Dealt In

The rake cap for fixed limit ring game hands dealt to exactly two players has in the past been different depending on whether or not the hand is dealt at a designated heads-up table. Effective January 1st, rake for heads-up play will be consistent across tables at the same stakes with differing numbers of seats.

Euro Currency Rake

Caps at Euro currency tables are also being adjusted to more closely match rake on USD currency tables given the current exchange rate between the USD and EUR currencies. Rake percentages at EUR tables will match the percentages at similar USD tables.

VPP Awarding at Euro Currency Tables

VPP Multipliers for Euro Currency tournaments and ring games are being modified based on the current exchange rate between the USD and EUR currencies as follows:

Tournaments and ring games with 7 and fewer seats: 7x

Ring games with 8 or more seats: 8x

PL/NL €0.01/€0.02: 12x

PL/NL €0.02/€0.05: 10x

PL/NL €0.05/€0.10: 8.5x

The number of FPPs per Euro of reward in a standard FPP satellite to a EUR currency tournament will be reduced from 85 to 81, making FPPs used in such tournaments more valuable.

Implementation

All of the above changes are planned for implementation in the first days of 2012, Eastern (US) Time.

PokerStars.be, PokerStars.dk, and PokerStars.ee

PokerStars.be, PokerStars.dk, and PokerStars.ee players who are playing ring games and tournaments shared with PokerStars.com players will be subject to the same rake and tournament fees including the weighted contributed method of awarding ring game VPPs. VPP Multipliers and other VIP Club Rewards will be announced separately for each of these licenses.

Additional Changes

We recognize that the annual basis of Supernova+ VIP Status, VIP Stellar Rewards, and Milestone Cash Credits results in many players planning their PokerStars play at the start of each year based on the game conditions and VIP Program rewards at that time. We cannot guarantee that there will not be meaningful VIP Program changes during the year, but every attempt will be made to avoid such midyear changes that could have a significant negative impact on players’ plans.
We do not plan any significant changes to ring games offerings at this time other than the planned addition of a fast moving ring games product sometime in the first quarter of 2012.

Additional 6-player and 9-player hyper turbo Sit & Go Tournaments are still under consideration for deployment in January 2012. Players will be notified in these forums in advance of such additions. Sit & Go offerings will continue to be evaluated periodically throughout the year resulting in changes being made as needed.

+1 hoping for a HEM update like this soon, but does this take into account the 5% to 4.5% change and changing the way they calc the 4.5% (which according to steve actually makes it more like a change to 4.6% or something rather than full on .5% reduction)

I was playing 14 - 16 hours per day for a while there trying to get to SNE and have 2 weeks off before next year mostly at 100nl. I definitely could NOT get another 2 hours in there to play. About every 4 or 5 days I would kind of freak out and be unable to keep playing cuz I'd be so exhausted. ANd I was DEF not playing my A game.. it was pretty bad at times I hate to say.

Yeah LOL comparing an office job where you can walk to the cooler, rub your eyes talk on the phone or even space out for a while for your 8 hour shift to an 8 hours of solid session poker where you are working CONSTANTLY. Until you do it, you don't know. Would expect more in the SNE thread lol.

Yeah breaking even is so easy.. that's why so SO many can't do it. This whole "breaking even" is not Breaking even which sounds so simple. It's beating the rake which at certain games is over 5bb/100!

Damnit Dickkemp what are you talking about dude? Yeah your VPPs at 5 handed will go up more now because they are RAKING more. AND unless you get 100% or MORE rake back, Every CENT extra rake = LOSS to you.

Yes you are right there are more ways to make money than RB, but anyone that thinks that the 3 things do not tie into each other is WRONG.

Your income = Win/Loss rate (pre rake) - Rake taken + RB given.

Losing RB given = less profit. I know you are (HOPING) your winrate will increase because of this, but that is a hope, we KNOW your RB is decreasing, and it looks like your Rake Taken is increasing more from the 5 handed cap INCREASE.

Rake taken increase: BAD
RB given decreased: BAD
Maybe more winrate: Yet to be determined

= you Happy ???

I wanted to rant about people saying our sense of entitlement but this post says it. They made the system, we are playing in their system. They drastically made it worse which is pretty unprecedented for stars. And stars reason for this? We don't know, they surely didn't SAY they were about to go bankrupt so they had no choice to increase their overall cut to keep themselves a float. They didn't say profits were great either and they were just doing this to increase profits... so it's just a guess. We DO know they are taking more than they were before... so we are taking less.

How can anyone NOT be upset by this? I used to think it was weird how people joined cults and started sacrificing personal gains and even their lives for weird suicide pacts etc. But stars isn't even promising eternal life or asking you to back them up and yet people defend stars taking more money from us AND themselves... I don't get it.

Me too... I fear there is at least even chance that all games become 5.5/$1 than 6/$1.


Did anyone else feel personally insulted by Steve saying this was designed to make it more even the amount of compensation given to high and low volume players? Almost seemed like a big FU to the VIP members from the VIP manager himself. And man how freaking shady. He is quick to say that the SAME AMOUNT OF VPPS are going out (oh ok cool stars isn't hosing anyone it's just a redistribution!11!!1!) but doesn't mention the fact that this actually means less MONEY will be given out. Funny how they clarify the VPPs which is just a made up stars number but ignores money which, last I heard, makes the world go round.

what about Ps.FR? will it change to W/C as well?

Wow, not what I was expecting but not entirely shocking either. I'm very curious to see how this affects the midstakes PLO games next year -- I doubt there will be a huge impact. If it's enough to kill off some of the super shorties (olga, etc) then an increase in game quality might combat the loss in RB for some.

Anyway I'll plan on gathering as many hands at as many PLO stakes (1/2 to 10/20) early next year to get a good grasp on average VPP/hand for different playstyles so I can create a table/reference tool for PLO players. If anyone is interested in helping me (I will need help for this), please PM me.

It doesn't take into account any changes to the way rake was in fact taken out of the pot. It shows you what your WC Rake was for the hands played given that the rake was what it was and you put in what you put in.

I'm nearly done for the day but I'll make a note tomorrow to look into creating a "What I would have paid in rake with the new system" report tomorrow for everyone so that everyone can see those numbers too.

I did a quick glance at charts, and unless I read it wrong, there are a lot of small stakes No Limit games (CAP & regular) that are now unplayable. Maybe this will mean a revival in Limit.

Are we at least now all on the same page about fighting for reduced rake and/or better multipliers? Fighting to get them to go back to dealt is a pipe dream.

Are we getting unified in our upcoming battle or what?

they lowered the rake everywhere else and the slight rake increase at 5 players is not that big of deal especially seeing how a wait list never goes below 18 players.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/PokerS...67683496628469

LET US ALL UNITE AND STAND TOGETHER AGAINST THESE LUDICROUS POKERSTARS CHANGES!!

I wonder if there'll be a noticeable boost to game quality due to the theory that "money flows up" the poker economy and that microstakes players got what appears to be a pretty big break on rake. No idea if it would be enough to offset the additional rake paid by players at higher stakes -- again it would prob depend on the player: if you're a nit losing out a massive amount then probably not, if you're a TAG/LAG player straddling the line losing a little then an increase in game quality by more fishier players + less shortstackers might make up for things.

If you got any free time, can you look and see what % of your hands for like a month or so were played 5 handed vs your total hands? If it ended up being a really small % that would be good news, I thought someone before said it was a large portion of their total hands, so it would be significant. Most likely this differs between games and stakes, so maybe it won't be that bad for your particular game/stakes?

Whose hurt more? Those regulars trying to get SNE or those shortstackers trying to get SNE? I'm curious but are there many ss/ratholers who make SNE?

Thanks!

Not if YOU are the general

Broken page?

SSers are sometimes regs too, but basically i think the tighter you are the more this affects you negatively.

Mellow, after your last comment to me, I'm glad your choice of game just went up in flames.

:-)

are you trolling 100% of the time?

probably 25% of your hands at plo 6max are 5handed.

Dick's 5 player comment has gotten a lot of responses. But if Rush/Blitz Poker becomes your game of choice EVERY single hand will be played with a full table. There are no empty seats or sit-outs.

Lol what happens to those 11/9 shortstack fr pros now hahaha, thinking about it more this will force me personally to cut down on tables, open up my game more and get better because the be meh and 24 table a lot profitability option isn't there, don't think I can be a German bum hunting unethical player all day long