less freerolls. give something to cash game players!

and stock the f**king x million hand lottery

Can they at least change the supernova free rolls to sunday?

This is a good thing imo and I also think you are kind of saying two opposite things.

By lowering the value of the freerolls (same thing as not adding more as the player-pool increases) they are essentially taking that dough and adding something else in place of them already. They do this in the form of the other VIP overlay tourneys they throw out there I think as well as some other stuff.

I definitely do not want them to add value to the freerolls because that means I feel more obligated to play them and I'll be losing out when I miss them. If they are going to keep them then I want them to be as near-worthless as they currently are and I trust that as they do this the other money will be used for better things for the program including the improved milestone structure they had last year (for example).

Let the Golds and Plats battle each other and try to sat into the things if they are so excited by them. Sounds great to me and fun for them. I don't want to have to deal with them at all and I'm glad they are worth such a small part of the VIP program.

Dunno I dont really mind the freerolls, problem is that they are on a Sat night over here in Europe, and having a live and stuff means playing is a no no. In reality though I'd perfer to see some "other" way of rewarding the mid-volume players. (Gold-Plat)

Meh, in fairness even though I love the whole stars setup, its is becomeing a big consideration of mine to move sites, problem being when I was a broke donk, I signed up to all the major sites without any sort of RB deal. Perhaps if I shoot off a few emails with the BR amount and volume of hands I play, this might change, doubt it though.

I don't get to play the freerolls as much anymore because of other obligations and I really don't care because they have so little value. If they were more valuable then I would be annoyed by the fact that they don't fit into my schedule and I'm actually missing out on something worthwhile.

Anything you buy with ftp points get pinched off your rakeback. Buy one of those custom avatars for a million fpps and you lose $2000 or whatever it is in rakeback that month as well. Same with satellite buy ins or anything else. If your rakeback doesn't cover it, you get a negative rakeback balance that needs to be worked off.

Get rid of the free Saturday tournaments (been said a million times) -- replace them with anything else so long as it is individual based and not communal.

Advanced warning on the double VPP days plus any other promos / changes would be appreciated. I don't like how things are just announced the day of.

Bring back the Aston Martin or better yet offer the Porsche $0.02 rate on any car over $100k or anything upmarket ($1M house, $25k watch, etc) with the condition of the buyer agreeing to a write up.

Other than those three things I can't really think of anything else that I'd improve. Maybe a big milestone for anyone insane enough to hit 5M.

Bob,

I suppose if I were grinding 70 hours a week, perhaps the 5x multiplier and other perks of elite wouldn't be enough to not be pissed about the missed value of a double vpp week. As it is, as a supernova, it didn't bother me at all, but I'm not a high volume player. I think the majority of their player base falls into my category, but I understand your position and it makes sense.

As for flips, no way they should allow these. Why should they allow people to freeroll them for vpps? You know people are just going to chop these flips outside of Stars, and allowing people an easy way to rack up vpps will only dilute the vip program, imo.

Mitch - I'm not an elite so I don't earn 5x FPP's. I also don't grind 70 hours per week (except on double VPP week obviously!)

But there's no freaking way I'm going to the WSOP if I think the double VPP week might take place at the same time again.

i worked out my rake back at 100NL if i get 400K vpps and it is about 51.5%. this is using MGR(amount of rake divided by number of players in hand). this seems to be way off the numbers seen earlier. is this because MGR is widely off or do lower limits just get better vpp/hand rates relatively?

if i get 600K vpp (which is my makable goal) rake back goes up to 58%

am i make some errors?

In sngs, every $1 you pay in rake is 5 vpps. at 1.6c/vpp (4k bonus rate, slightly below concierge value), $1 in vpps is 62.5. For the 5 vpps to be 62.5 you'd need a 12.5x multiplier. Now obviously the vpps are what are valuable for the making sne and milestones and such, but Stars doesn't really lose out on flips from most people.

you only get 27% taken off your rb as it comes off your MGR. So spending points is EV.

Also if you spend iron medals on tournament tokens that isn't deducted.

Hopefully the new tournament entry you buy with points won't either and if that is the case will be a huge plus.

on top of that you get 2 bonuses up to 1200 a year not deducted.

Release the 2009 VIP program!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Stars doesn't lose out on flips from most people. But anyone who knows they are going to get Elite they can lose a lot of value from and that's because of the extra value of all the milestones and the tourney pacakges, etc.

If you are getting all the way to Elite then you are getting about $110k for 1 million VPP's which is $0.11 per VPP if you are currently only earning 3.5x FPP's. This is about 55% rakeback on the whole year.

If you are currently earning 5x FPP's then it it is closer to $0.14 per VPP.
If you get double points then that is $0.28 per VPP for that stretch because of the Elite-value you are getting (again...this is if you know ahead of time you will get to Elite...if you fall short and only get to 600k or 800k or something you are still getting some significant additional value though).

Anyway, $0.28 per VPP during the week when you are paying them $0.20 in rake per VPP means that Elites get way more than 100% rakeback on SNG's (and most other games) if they did a 'standard' double-points week while they are still earning 5x FPP's. Flipping becomes super-profitable at the highest stakes games in the long-run.

On a $5000+$200 (or whatever it is at the nosebleeds) every time you do it you give them $200 to get back $280 or $300 or so (depends on the full value of Elite for your situation including which tourneys you play in). Not to mention that it gets you to the 'finish line' much faster.

And they will be roughly around 100% (closer to 110% actually) even if you are in the 3.5x FPP range but know you will be getting to Elite so even then it can be worthwhile if you the bankroll to do it if knocking off 100k or more of the VPP's at break-even (about 100% rakeback) is something you're interested in doing.

Obviously this does not include most players but Stars can really take a bath on the top guys flipping like crazy to take advantage of this. Since they don't allow the flips anymore it's kind of moot but just spelling it out for those who don't understand how flips can be so worthwhile especially for Elite players who intend on getting Elite again.

This would be an excellent addition.

Would this be a good thread in which to calculate, for once and for all, the equivalent RB % for different games/limits/amount of play? I know it's been done in pieces here and there, and Mason posted something in the magazine, but I don't think I've seen a really good breakdown at all limits/games with math that most people could agree on.

Meh, I don't know. I was going to take on this project at some point but then decided to wait until Stars announced whatever changes for 2009. right now I'm not sure I'm in the mood to do it. It still varies from player to player even within the games anyway (such as whether you are more inclined to stick around when a 6-max table becomes 4-handed or something or you are the type of player who gets up right away).

I have some pretty strong disagreements with Mason's conclusions. I admit that I didn't understand all of his article but I thought they were off and don't know how he could have arrived at numbers that high. I asked him PM if he would helping me understand it better and pointed out that many of us were confused about it and invited him to participate in the thread in here but he didn't respond. I guess there was a thread going on in the magazine forum about it.

good post. One point though is that if you are going to make it the "time saved" by flipping instead of playing doesn't hurt Stars one bit. I completely understand them not allowing it for double vpp week, but outside of that week I believe the amount of degens flipping for fun probably earns them more than the amount lost from people flipping for vpps because at the end it's usually play or flip for the vpps, so Stars doesn't win or lose in them, the player just goes through a bit more hell to make it. Outside of double vpp week it's -ev even with the vpps for 5x to do it (should be ~extra 25k if they make the entire thing while still elite, so each vpp = 15c while it costs 20c to get each one). Again, during double week (if they do another one this year) it's profitable, but otherwise not even factoring in vpps. The only way Stars doesn't profit is if the player wouldn't make it without flips but would with. Do they still at least allow cash flips? Flipping for full stacks and only getting 1 VPP (~30c in value for even elite during 2x week while contributed rake is 50c so plus ev for Stars). I guess if 9 people flipped at a FR table they each get 2 VPPs for 22c with contributed rake=$3/9 = 33c for novas. sne or even novas during double vpp week would then profit on 9-handed flips.

Yah I'd be very tempted to save up FPPs for a car a little more expensive than the Cayman S. I wonder if Stars would be willing to let you keep the $0.02 rate on FPPs over 3 million if you wanted a 911 Carrera S.

Am I missing something about the milestone bonuses? I want the Porsche and the bonuses will just eat up my FPPS no?

The milestone bonuses only eat up 50k FPPs a pop, so if you hit SNE then you will have 3.5 million FPPs at that point. The 6 milestone bonuses will use up 300k FPPs, so you will still have 3.2 million FPPs for the Porsche (and probably need the extra FPPs for upgrades to the Cayman S b/c Porsche does not include many thing you think should be standard at the base MSRP).

If you want a better Porsche that shouldn't be an issue. My understanding is that they just wire $60k to the dealership so I assume you could do two/three and get $120k/$180k wired. It would be nice to get the same rate on other $100k+ cars.

The milestones represent between 0.04 and 0.16 conversion the Porsche is 0.02.

People back to the Earth

With over 100 SNEs and people like Jorj95 who make up to 15 mio in FPPs in should be clear there should be stuff in the VIP Shop worth more than 60K/3mio points

FPP Store item that will turn off doomswitch please.