I don't really get why Adrenaline Rush is being removed at all? It has been fairly popular - especially when the gold rush promo is running. And it certainly has been a good money maker for FT as well..?

In general, it seems all (?) capped games are being removed, why? Next: Super Turbo's gone?

This is what I thought would happen. Do you find tables are quicker to fill though?

I doubt the ratio will be equal and I have the feeling more tables will break then spawn being 5 max.

Who exactly did you talk to? I have asked a lot of the 6 O regs in the chatbox today and none of them were contacted by you. I am consistently in the top three volume players in these games from .5/1 to 2.5/5 and you did not get in touch with me to ask for my opinion.

I want to keep an open mind about this, but I am very worried about the effect it will have on the games. As has already been mentioned by another reg, many players do not like to play short-handed and the change to 5max will, I suspect, lead to tables dying a lot faster than they did when it was 6max. We did indeed see this exact thing happen this afternoon when 5 tables died within minutes.

These games need very careful nurturing since it is a niche game with a small player pool. It was working well at 6max, although partly this was due to a small number of regs working hard to start games and keep them running. Making it 5max is going to make it harder work to keep the games thriving and vibrant IMO.

There is a part of me that wants to be open-minded, welcomes experiments, and is happy to give this change a chance, see how things play out. However most of me thinks that, by the time we work out for sure that this change is bad, the games will already have died. With a niche game like this it is all about maintaining momentum within the player pool. If we lose this momentum then the games will die quickly and we may never be able to rebuild this momentum and get the games going again. I'd strongly urge you to cancel this experiment ASAP, rather than waiting to see what happens. By the time you find out, it could well be too late. If it ain't broke, don't fix it etc...

Also, with regard to this:

Really? Who was giving you this feedback? Clearly no-one who actually plays in these games regularly. The 6 O games play looser than pretty much any other game on the internet. Nowhere else do you regularly get 4 or 5 players seeing the flop! Average VPIP of both regs and recs alike is WAY higher in these games than in NLHE or PLO. I am pretty much the tightest reg in the games and my VPIP is around 35%. This would certainly not be considered tight in a 6max NLHE or PLO game. Most players VPIP between 40% and 60%. Whoever has told you these games play tight has told you wrong.

I hate to be negative and I really don't think today's changes were a particularly big deal (kind of silly to act like the idea of 5 handed vs 6 handed tables matters in any significant way) in a positive or negative direction, but FTPs biggest issues right now have nothing to do with how the lobby is presented. They really don't.

It's about getting new customers which is something FTP seems to be struggling at right now as compared to some other sites and that has little to do with whether the lobby is cluttered with CAP, deep, etc. I mean again, I am not upset that you want to clean it up. Party did a good job cleaning up their lobby while still allowing people to sit wherever they want, but ultimately new players are not really paying attention to this kind of stuff and FTP seems to really be falling off the radar.

Has the advertising budget gone down? If the casino is getting more resources, is FTP doing anything to encourage casino players to dabble in poker or does FTP prefer they stay at the casino and do what they can to avoid casino players jumping over to poker?

Promotions and advertising geared toward fun players is what the site needs. Traffic is just so weak these days. I think trying to force reg battles is actually the last thing FTP needs right now. This isn't Stars with a massive player pool. The idea of introducing rush HU or limited HU tables on FTP seems a pretty terrible idea to me at this stage (aside from the fact that there is nowhere near enough traffic for rush hu) but I guess that debate can go in one of the endless debate threads about the subject that have gone on for years and doesn't really belong here.

What would actually be GOOD for FTP is devoting a lot more resources to getting new deposits. Hell, to even creating good opportunities for new deposits to get to play each other from time to time without doing it in an unethical and deceptive way like Party does. I know that idea won't be that popular, but I don't mean limiting new players from playing any game but instead just making their early experiences on FTP a lot more fun than it is at the moment. Creating an even more shark infested, cutthroat, king of the hill type environment on FTP will make the available options for new players all the worse as they will basically be presented with nothing but the best sitting at their respective stakes.

Sorry, a really long winded way of saying that the changes today seemed mostly fine to me. I hate CAP but if it is actually popular than that is the only change I would be curious why they made as most of the other stuff does seem like clutter. In general I think they should offer any games people want to play and if they want to clean things up, just clean up stuff no one plays. I got the feeling that is what they went for today, and it's fine, but ultimately cash game lobby presentation has very little to do with the long term health of FTP.

It would be in all of our best interest to devote time, energy, and suggestions into how to try and get people from other sites over to FTP rather than nitpick too much about the lobby. Trying to find a way for some recreational players to actually get to play with each other from time to time at 6m, hu, sng's whatever, would also be a potentially positive thing if it isn't done in a gross way. Any ideas?

the 10knl and 20knl hu matches were great advertising and I really enjoyed watching them. I just dont get why you would remove those and create a 10x gap between two stake levels for the sake of a "clean lobby". just remove all games, it will make it even cleaner... As others said, you guys are probably taking the wrong measures to fix the traffic problem. Offering less games than before will surely not help.

Traffic problem fix? Bring back iron man.

Totally agree.
I can't believe how ****ing bad some of the changes are lately. It's official, FTP no longer like money. The drastic-ness with which is was done, with no warning or discussing with the players before, is just utterly absurd.
I can see a possible reason for some of the changes, but some of them just seem nonsensical to me, like removing HU tables in some games, or making mixed games and 6PLO into 5-max rather than 6-max. What was the rationale behind that, and how do you think things like that will help anything?

R.I.P. FTP being the home of highstakes though . Unfortunately it's long gone now, and now FTP offers almost nothing else that Stars doesn't offer. Especially with the $2k/4k stake being removed from every game, particularly 2-7 TD where it was incredibly active, I think is just ridiculous, and I completely agree with hasu.

Also I feel like it will just encourage highstakes players to sell more action of themselves to get to the HUGE gap between $25/50 to $25/500, or $50/100 to $1k/2k limits.

Also, I just want to agree that I think it's really terrible that you removed all of the FL 2-7 TD sngs, all of the mixed game sngs, and all of the FLO8 sngs. As well as removing things like all of the HU 2-7 SD sngs over $25, and only having hypers below that. There was considerable traffic there, and it just makes absolutely no sense to me.

It legitimately saddens me that people now have almost no options to play these mixed games. And I think it's a real problem, and is completely against FT encouraging people to diversify in their game choices.

tbh at this point they are trying to do the opposite and for a long term plan it's probably the right move. If players migrate from the games that were cancelled to the current offerings the player pools of the games that still exist will pick up. This is turn can bring more players to the games from other sites that gave up on Full Tilt as a viable option due to poor traffic.

After the traffic picks up they can then re-offer some of the games that they've closed the doors to. The only criticism I have with any of these changes is the switch to 5-max. Sure it's somewhat unique to other sites but the problem with games breaking is a very real concern. The other change that should have been implemented is allowing any HU cash games. These games are a cancer to a healthy ecosystem and all sites would profit more in balance to remove them except for Cap variations and the tiniest of stakes.

^ The only part of that I really agree with tbh is about the 5-max.
Some of the above is the opposite for me. Personally, basically the only reasons I am still playing on Full Tilt at all is because it still has 10-game, and still has Heads up 2-7 tables and HU mixed games tables, as Stars doesn't have these.

6C def isn't a tight game, I'd say a lot pots hit max rake and this could be the reason for going 5 max, hoping for more tables, increasing profits? Nothing at all to do with them playing tight, that's just not true at all, and I'm sure you only have to watch the games for 10 minutes to realise that.

Yeah, I can attest to the 6 card PLO games already being crazily loose.
5-max for them is unnecessary. And yeah I'm guessing the change might just be more about being a pursuit of profits, for more tables.
Because it's probably worse for the games as 5-max, (as Sect7G) when games are more likely to break more easily.

To be fair FTP is dead anyway. On a Wednesday afternoon last week they had 25% of the traffic of stars.fr. These changes affected me too, but like many other regs I've been progressively keeping less and less money on ftp for quite some time.

RIP.

Can someone explain to me why they think a 5max table will break quicker than a 6max table?

The second a fish sits out on any table at decent stakes the table breaks.

Yep they are dead! Instead of making needfull changes like implementing mtt's on the app or updating the 2008 software they remove the most popular high stake game. They dont seem to have a clue! R.i.p.

Because they go short handed a lot quicker and not everyone like short handed. If 1 or 2 sit out at 5 max, its now 4 or 3 handed and people just leave.

I play most of my volume at 9/10max and at any stake 400+ this is exactly what happens anyway.

Lol. Because we're talking about low-mid stakes. That's obviously where the vast majority of the volume is. And 6PLO doesn't run at any higher stakes basically.
At low stakes the table normally doesn't just break when 1 rec player sits out/leaves, but it is far more likely to break if 2 people sit out/leave, and if it's 5-handed, people are not that often willing to play 3-handed. And so they then leave if not, and the table breaks completely.

Agreed, even though i personally would like 5max these changes are really bad, 6c games have always been breaking easily and these changes seems to make it even worse.

I'm also interested to know who they were talking with about these changes, i'm a red pro and would seem to be logical to ask my and other high volume regs opinion about this, but no.

Easy: AMAYA.

Shyam Markus, where have you gone? There have been lots of comments for you to acknowledge - and respond to - in this thread since your last post, yet you have been completely absent.

The change to 5max has definitely had a detrimental effect on the 6c Omaha games based on the last few days' evidence. Plus every comment on this thread from people who actually play 6c regularly has said the same thing - it is going to be bad for the games. Perhaps 5max might be fine for other games, who knows? But everyone is telling you the same thing - this is a bad change for 6c Omaha, please reverse it quickly.

Despite what you stated, it is pretty clear to me that you did not actually speak to anyone who regularly plays 6c Omaha before making this change. The laughable statement that you received feedback about how tight these games play shows this. Nobody who plays these games regularly would ever say that because it is so clearly not the case. I am not accusing you of lying btw... perhaps you did speak to a few players who might have played the odd bit of 6c Omaha. But you very definitely did not speak to any players who play regularly and know how the 6c games run at the limits that have regular volume (i.e. 2.5/5 and below).

The good news is that since the change you have got some really clear feedback from a number of players who do regularly play in the games, and who intimately understand the fragile ecology of these games. I would urge you to listen to this feedback, and act on it quickly. You've currently got a nice little money earner with a vibrant niche game that was running well at 6max. Please do not ruin this by insisting on staying with 5max. Everyone is telling you the same thing; that 5max is going to have a detrimental effect on the health of these games. It is not weakness to quickly reverse a decision based on well-meaning and well-informed feedback. On the contrary, it is good business to do this.

Wow, first of all chill out on Shyam. It's pretty lame to attack him for being absent because he hasn't replied over the weekend. He's been answering peoples questions quite frequently the last weeks and you are out of line acting like he is abandoning the forum.

I also have spoken with people that love the idea of 5 handed instead of 6 handed and wish it'd be applied at regular PLO as well. There has not been some overwhelming disappointment with 5 handed as you suggested. A couple people seemed skeptical about 5 handed and that was it. You are just trying to manipulate the discussion in your favor and people will see through that. It's totally fine for you to voice your own thoughts that you don't like 5 handed, but end it there. I and many others disagree. Hell, I'd love to see 4 handed regular PLO but that's just my opinion

Yeah you're right. It came out mean. Thanks insideman. And sorry Shyam x

You're right about the other thing too.

You miss the point insideman. None of us mind 5 handed play, we are the ones who often continue short handed. The problem is the majority don't like to, and so, as we predicted, games have been breaking faster since the implementation of 5m.

This is not true. Myself, currylover and King of Lizards are all in the top 5 of most hands logged over the last year at 6o, so we have a pretty good understanding of what causes the games to break. Every other reg i've spoken to ingame has also expressed concerns.

Well it's clearly more than just a weekend that Shyam has been absent for now. But also you would think that after such big changes like these specifically, then he (or any other FT staff member) would stick around and talk to us, and read/respond to the feedback from the community about said changes.

Same for me too, agreed. This also applies to other games like mixed games too, but to a lesser extent.

Where did you get those numbers from? Is there a legit list, like on the FTP site with points? Or just from other regs that you've talked to, comparing their HUD stats/data?