still i can not tell if you are just stating your opinion or if this is based on hard technical facts.

anyways, the case should be rather easy to solve when we get a "not detectable" from an expert. given all the traces a user leaves behind, there is no method to tell automated behavior apart from non-automated when it comes to jesus seating?

that is ..up to no freaking deep leaning neuronal network can tell this apart and kurzweil is already sold to google but we will hire him as soon as possible because this is an important precedence.

Stopped reading there.

And so hasnt anyone else except someone who claims that some vendors claim their programm can scan 80 tables per second ( lol ) .

Notice he talks in plural which suggests there are multiple vedors who sell it and there are more but they dont claim to be scanning that much tables.

I mean did you try to find those vendors?

Have you ever used tablescan turbo? I suggest you do to get an idea how long it takes to scan a lobby. If there was a programm that can do the same thing in a second or less then wouldnt you expect table scan turbo to do better as it does?

If that script is commercially available wouldnt you expect that this programm could be found in the software forums and google?


I mean if theres multiple vendors selling stuff they sure do their best to avoid beeing found , it seems theyre trying to sell as little as they can for some reason.

That beeing said if anyone uses or will use such a script I think it should be banned. It just goes too far as in harrasing bad players. Seats next to a fish will be taken in less then a second anyway because theres always guys hawking the lobby but if there was a wide array of players using a software that scans lobbys and seats players that fast I think thats too much.

I have never used any table scanning software not do I plan to.

I am comfortable at this moment with how I am approaching my whole game so I do not feel the need for anything else.

I saw a couple programs mentioned in a PS email that another poster put in this thread but again, since I do not have an inclination to use such products, I have not done any further research.

All I know is I had to laugh at the statement that a human would be able to scan through the tables faster than software because that statement just sounds absurd to me. If I am wrong however, just laugh at me, its ok.

source?

actually i've only noticed an increase in fish on Pokerstars the past couple months... games are better than ever. i highly doubt fish give a ****.

I also have not noticed any fall off of bad players and I agree, if there will be, it will not be from the maniac 92/77 players, nor will it be from the 78/0 players.

It MAY come from the fish who think they know the game, playing 5/3 or 20/6 but really, the players where the real money come from, I do not think that they are going anywhere.

HUDS will not scare them away. JesusSeat Scripts will not scare them away. They are there to play and play they will. If anything they would look at those programs and just think they are so much better because they do not need to use them.

Again, just my opinion but I am not worried about them being " scared away " I think they are " too smart for their own good "

I guess what I am trying to say is if a player isnt going to take the necessary steps to improve their game, plugging very obvious leaks. Then I do not feel they will care much about these programs either.

I emailed stars about it and they said that they won't ban the scripts but know it's a problem and are trying to re-make the lobby/table/seating etc... so that people can't bumhunt as agressively. My guess is they will make random seating or smth like that.

It has never been about bad players leaving. Or anything else like that. It has ALWAYS been about good players arguing over who gets access to these bad players. The other stuff is always just a justification for those are concerned they are not getting enough access - i.e enough fish to themselves.

Why doesn't stars put a 3-second delay every-time someone joins a table so that they won't feel hunted? Anyone?

Will be leaving Stars the moment table selection becomes impossible. It is just not worth my time to play only against regs at the current rake levels especially if over half of the regs at the table are 40bb ratholers.

I do not understand how anyone can think this software is not a bot. Table selection is supposed to be a skill. Now regulars who have this software have an advantage over the other regulars who do not have a computer performing the entire skill for them. Outrageous. Regulars who are genuinely table selecting should be very mad about this. Who is a better table selector should not be decided by who has the software and who doesn't. If the argument is table selection is not a skill then all games should be zoom no argument.

+1mirrion

Seriously, ppl itt complaining just to complain. Games haven't been this soft since black friday. Recreational players are clearly not leaving in droves, or at all. They don't care. Also, I play 1/2 SH and have had no problems getting seats.

Don't get me wrong, Stars should def ban seat scripts. I thought it would be a huge problem in the past but clearly it's not. Nobody will risk getting their account banned if it violates the TOS. However it's threads like these that makes Stars want to unnecessarily kill table selection entirely with that stupid compulsory table starting idea. People just need to stfu.

edit: Why are there no chat logs of fish complaining about 'being hunted'? Where's the stats indicating there's been an uncharacteristic drop in recreational players? Lots of assumptions in itt with no proof.

You're not alone. Game quality has deteriorated (Lots of bad regs quit due to rakeback changes, decrease in fish due to legislation, coaching sites and the ridiculous increase in shortstacking ratholers) to the point where table selection is very important for poker players. It's not that we can't win without table selection, but to remove it entirely will cut into our winrates to the point where it's just not worth playing. The change from dealt to WC rakeback was bad enough and the removal of table selection will be the nail in the coffin for A LOT of regs. Maybe Stars ought to see how many 100nl+ regs still win at >2pt before cutting into our hourly profits again.

this is a decent solution. only one person allowed to sit every 3 seconds

solution to what? there currently isn't even a problem. No offense Greg you know I love you, but you haven't even played on Stars since Black Friday :-P. All Stars needs to do is ban the script and we're fine. Nobody is going to risk getting banned from the largest poker site to use an easily detectable script that violates the ToS.

I will as well for the reasons I stated a couple of my posts ago.

There is no way I will remain at PS if they try to implement something like this. I assume in your post ETO you were thinking along the lines of " Will be leaving Stars the moment the ability to CHOSE MY OWN TABLE SELECTION becomes impossible. "

If they decide to ban this script, I will not lose any sleep over it. If they decide to keep it, which it looks like they will, again, I am ok with it.

However if they decide to take the line of thinking " well, we cannot ban the script that doesnt involve any skill what-so-ever when it comes to table selecting but we will implement a feature that DOES diminish a players edge they have with THEIR CHOICE of table selecting, I will be out of there and I am sure others will follow.

This would be such backasswards line of thought and I would lose a lot of respect for a company that I hold in the HIGHEST REGARD!

In a business notorious with shady practices and promises never kept, I consider Pokerstars a "Rose Among Thorns"

It would be a pity to see that change.

yeah i have no dog in this race. i thought i read that Stars isn't gonna ban the script and that they were looking at alternatives. i wouldnt use it and risk getting banned

You make a whole post explaining how you have never used such a software and dont want to do a tiny but of research. And then you end by saying its absurd humans are faster then software.

No one has been able to name this software or show us how to find it.

I invite you to download tablescan turbo which is a commercial software that has been around for a long time just so you can see how long this software takes to scan a whole lobby.

Any human hawking the lobby will usually be faster then this. Sure a software that could scan a 100 tables in a nanosecond would be faster then a human but tell me where is this software that you speak of?


I can tell you from personal experience that new seats are taken in within a second by players who arent using any kind of script. Especially at peak times there are always regs who dont have lots of tables going and are hawk eyeing to lobby.

So far there has been 0 evidence of any commercial software that scans tables at superhuman speed. Its nowhere to be found but yet somehow everyone and their grandmother is supposed to be using it down to small stakes.

Id need to see evidence that such lightspeed scripts are beeing used before jumping to any conclusion. Usually any kind of script can be easyly found via google and the 2+2 software forums. Yet this valueable script thats supposedly so wide spread isnt anywhere to be found.

You are the second person who says that Table Scanner is slower than a human being able to scroll through the lobby and find the best seats for their game and style.

I have no idea. I again do not use them nor do I want to do research on them because I have no interest in actual use.

If what you and the other poster said is true, then LOL at this table scanner ( and LOL at me for thinking they are fast ) because why would anyone use them? Just lazy? I am just asking, I have no knowledge about it. I am asking in all honesty, if its slow as molasses why would people even purchase it? Is it just so you do not have the " burden " of having to click?

I have read in this thread the mention of two programs. One I assume in for a SNG, which I believe is all common knowledge. Since I do not play SNGS, it wouldnt appeal to me so I will never click in goggle to even look it up.

Its weird that you mention how you feel everyone else assumes this script/scripts are in use by everyone and their grandmother. I myself stated many times, I have had ZERO problems getting the tables that I want so I have seen NO evidence of regs " in the know " blocking my attempts to make money playing online poker.

This whole thread started with an OP demanding those " in the know " tell him where these magical scripts could be found.

You tell me I should do research, I should try table scanner. I really do not have the time to do it and I see no reason to do it.

I have zero problems if anyone is using this. As long as PS stands by their T & C that the script(s) is/are LEGAL on their site, I cannot really say much about it.

If and when the day comes and PS decides that after further investigation and hundreds/thousands of emails from concerned players, that they are outright making them ILLEGAL, then I will have MAJOR CONCERNS about how exactly PS will be able to police the situation so the people who follow the T & C will not be taken advantage of.

I have seen the logical posts where this seems like it would be easy to detect since you would have the same players always getting seated in a nano second next to the mark over and over again.

I also agree that MOST players wouldnt be foolish enough to risk their whole bankroll just to try to use something like this software/script or whatever you want to call it. Oh course, you will have those who feel they are above the rules or are too smart for PS support/security and they will try to avoid detection. When these people are caught, I want PS to assure us that they will be dealt with and not with just a warning/slap on the wrist, but their account banned and seized which is normally the procedure I believe when you have these shady people trying all kinds of foolish antics.

We see it every day on 2p2, so this would be nothing different.

FOR NOW, PS support has stated that they will not punish a player for using them ( if they can find them ) so what can we do?

We can keep this thread going with some logical discussion. State our opinions, for and against the use of these " scripts " and then take it from there.

If I am wrong, and a human is a much better table selector with the highest efficiency, then I am happy because that is how I am doing it and I do not need any help from table scanner, scripts or whatever else is out there.

If people feel it gives them and edge and it is within the rules in PS eyes, who am I to argue? More power to them.

What is odd das_wunderkind is how you mock my thinking that a computer program created for a purpose would be faster than a human.

I would suspect if you went up to most anybody and asked them: " When it comes to processing information or collecting data what would be faster? A human mind or a computer? " I will go out on a limb and say that most people would assume a computer would be able to do it quicker?

Am I crazy for thinking this way? The way you questioned it was like I was way off base or something. Just seemed weird.

You were the first one to mock me for saying what I said do you dont deserve any better in return.

Maybe we can start over.

I understand your assumptions but that was no reason state im saying absurd things and basiclly call me stupid.

If these commercial scripts exist that no one is able to find then Iam still beating those on a regular basis.

there is no source and games are better than ever tis year. period.

samesame but different. we will see wat happens...

bc there are no fish complaining so far. they were hunted b4, they were hunted now. it's not like that big of a difference if somebody sits in 0.5secs or 2 secs of if table is full in 5 secs instead of 15.
i would go so far that teh majority of recs like tables filling so quickly bc there are alot of fish who dont want HU or 3handed and so they can start directly.


banning those will not solve anything. ptr was banned, everybody used it, buying hand histories is forbidden but every 2nd screenshot some midstakes regs post of his hud makes it obv that still alot of people buy. why should banning those scripts should be any different. furthermoar there is no real point to ban them. the only thing they could ban is the autoclick teh script performs but u cannot ban monitoring empty tables...

Oh yeah, fair enough. I honestly didnt even know it was you who first stated that. I thought I saw a few people mentioning it but if I copy/pasted/quoted you, then yeah sorry for trying to make it sound like you were so fool or something. I apologize for that 100%

Thats why sometimes in my posts I have been trying to say more " This is my opinion " because yeah we can all read something, and type " I think that is foolish " but not meaning the person is foolish per say. I mean, hell we do not even know most people on here personally and its just the internet so yes, again, very sorry for that misunderstanding.

Banning seating software is more of a deterrence than anything else. The risk vs reward of using a seating script diminishes significantly if it means putting your account at risk of getting banned. PokerStars has extremely intrusive software that can detect all programs running on your PC, so if they launch an investigation into a suspicious player, he better be masking the program really well. Any script available to the public will be easily detectable, so you'd have to be pretty damn stupid to use one.

Regardless, I'd much prefer Stars leaving things the way they are than changing the system to do this compulsory table starter crap. The funny thing is fish are more likely to feel the site is rigging their automated seat than feel hunted by players lol. Fish like the ability to chose their tables... if they didn't, they'd play Zoom. We don't need it forced down our throats.

+1
While I personally think these scripts should be banned I am not willing to give up table selection to get rid of them.