I have an account on MGM poker. I have been grinding and got my account up to around 22k. My brother plays a lot of live NLH and we were debating who was a better player and decided to play heads up. I thought I was significantly better, so we decided to play heads up for $500. I helped him create an MGM account and we sat at a heads up table to play. One of us on a laptop and the other on a phone, we played heads up. He beat me for several buy-ins and we finally called it a match. He went to withdraw his winnings, but they ended up freezing both of our accounts. They would not tell us the reason why, but that the accounts were being investigated and would not give us any more information. Now they are saying the accounts are permanently closed for violating terms and service. All we did was play a friendly heads up match against one another and now they around 22k from the both of us. We have tried to contact the gaming commission and will be speaking to a lawyer. Does anyone have any advice on how to get our money out? Feels like we just got robbed by the mafia....

Sounds like a clear case of chipdumping from mgms pov. Lesson learned. And why didn't you just buy a deck of cards and play rakefree hu instead?

I do sympathize, tough lesson to learn.

we have a deck, but who feels like shuffling every hand and we didn't have chips so we figured a bit of rake was worth the fee of keeping count of chips and not shuffling... I'm certainly not giving up on this... it is not a tough lesson because we did absolutely nothing wrong and I am not allowing a casino site to rob me... looking for advice on how to proceed to get our money back

Who feels like shuffling? Perhaps people that do not want to put their 20K+ balance at risk with play behavior that mirrors chip dumping (even if that is not what it was).

How about this crazy idea - instead of playing 500NL you guys play 5NL and then settle up in the real world at 100x. You would pay less rake, and your 22K would not be confiscated if you lost $30-50 to your brother, even if you were the one who helped create his account and you were both playing from the same location.

What you do have in your favor is that moving money to your brother (assuming everything you have said is true, which is often not the case in threads like this) is better than moving it to an unrelated account in that manner, as the latter is usually done after a fraudulent deposit is made. So I would suggest you keep on it, and really stress that you and your brother were just too clueless in this area to know that what you were doing was potentially a security issue. Stress hard your innate lack of common sense, and that might eventually get you lads a more favorable ruling, again assuming there are no other details that have been left out (which usually happens in threads like this).

Also, if you are going to use a lawyer, do not use the one this guy did

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...erstars+lawyer

Had I known this was a possibility I would have NEVER had done it. I know it would be suspicious of collusion if we played at the same table, but we never played at any table besides this 1 heads up match, so no other players were involved and didn't think it would be a big deal playing poker against my brother heads up on the site. Point remains, nothing illegal happened, and we're out 22k. Please continue to post recommendations to resolve this.

If anybody has any contacts, please let me know, I have not even been able to speak to anybody about this. Customer Service keeps saying they have no information and will not transfer me to somebody that does.

Of course it is possible that there was some sort of fraud taking place here, but there is completely insufficient evidence in the OP to prove that that's the case.

Most obviously, there does not seem to be any motive to chip dump here. Why the hell would someone need to chip dump legitimately won money? Of course, if the money was not legitimately won, that might create a motive - but there's not even a hint (yet!) that this is the case.

Given that the crime of chip dumping is entirely dependent upon having a motive, that's a pretty fundamental problem here.

Absolutely no reason to chip dump. All the money in my account was won fair and square

Exactly, but the problem with threads like this created by random posters is that nearly all of them leave out information that would make their story quite a bit less sympathetic. Is that the case here? Who knows, but the problem is that it mimics a behavior that usually follows this pattern (ie: critical information left out), so it is hard to immediately separate it , just because a new 1 post poster says so (since they all say that).

Similarly, he ran into a problem of copying a behavior (chip dumping), whether that was the intent or not, and that does put him in a tricky spot that he has to explain his way out.

If everything the OP said is complete (honestly it is kind of hard to believe that), then indeed his Corey and Trevor style story (Trailer Park Boys reference for those who not familiar with that show) has some possibility of being resolved with some effort, because I agree that there really should be no obvious intent here to move chips to the brother.

However, things that can be at play (granted with cheats with an actual plan) could be something like is this a way to move income from one person to another (who would pay less taxes).

The Corey and Trevors of the world find themselves in a lot of problems, both when they do behaviors that are unethical and as well inadvertantly do behavior that is unethical or mirrors that type of behavior. That is why I suggest the OP really stress how dumb he and his brother are, so that any potential sinister motives can be removed, and in the end it is just a case of dummies being dummies with no real bad intent - give them their money back, then close their accounts and boot them etc.

I can't speak for other people who have posted on this site, only for myself. And, sure, call it being a dummy if you want, I would say it is naive because I had NO IDEA this would be an outcome; neither of us did. If we had, we obviously would not have gone this route. I don't think like a criminal, so I didn't realize any crime implications of a friendly match vs a sibling.

Will you post your SNs, please?

How much did your brother deposit in order to play your HU games, at what stakes? How much did he win from you?

Are you able to post the HHs of your games?

My SN: RileyReid
his sn: nreyn2331 (he just made it so the only hands he played were vs me)

He won like 5 buy ins

can't post any HH because both accounts are blocked

He deposited 500$ with cash at a local 7-11 (his bank wouldn't let him deposit with a card and $500 was the max)

we sat 2.5/5 I believe then moved to 5/10 or maybe just 5/10 from the beginning (this happened 2/11- almost a month ago so it's hard to say the exacts since I can't log into my account and double check). He won maybe 5 buy ins? so few thousand

also we were both having some drinks so it's hard to say for sure on the specifics

Banned by payment processor, so need to get the funds off by other means

Hit withdrawal limits and want to get the funds off the site before limits reset

Tax related reasons

Player is getting less action on their main account and creates account in family/friend's name, deposits half/1 buy-in on that, and then "transfers" themselves some additional buy-ins

Player's family/friend legitimately wants to start playing for themselves, player will stake/fund them and so most of the previous one above is done

Those reasons and more are why the Corey and Trevor dummies defence is the best approach for this OP.

A potential problem could be if the sites have to withhold or report income above a certain amount (kind of like how casinos withhold jackpots above a certain amount) and this transfer/chip dump was (whether intentional or not) a form of structuring.

When did you first deposit, how much and with what method?

What limits did you play at?

Have you verified your account, and made any prior withdrawals?

Did you play heads up poker on the site before?

You compeletely missed my point that is : From mgms pov that looks a lot like chipdump.

Put the emphasis on "possible" rather than on "course" when you reread his post.

I did not deposit, this was built from the new player bonus. Most of the winnings came from a parlay on sports betting. Have several bets over 1k and 2k. I play mostly 1/2 but some 2/5 5/10 if the game is right or I'm bored/wanna test myself. Most of the play is heads up or 6max.
I had not withdrawn yet because I was enjoying the sports betting app and I did not need the money out, but planned to within the near future so I did not hit any limits. I verified my account just recently once it was on hold during the investigation.

This seems like a good step:

Although I'm not sure what "tried" means.

This might be a reason for funds confiscation, if bonus terms were being abused.

and all of these possibilities are why OPs like this, even if they are fully telling the truth (which again, very rare) have problems, because the reality is that the story of brother 2 depositing so that he can play brother 1 heads up for larger buy ins after brother 1 never did a deposit is not really the most believable, and yet some extremely clueless people find themselves in these spots at times without any real negative intent. Hence the Corey and Trevor dummies defence plan (whether they are this clueless or were trying to do something a bit more sinister in as clumsy a way as possible).

Tried means called and left messages, but haven't been able to contact anyone yet.

And well, 25$ was to try it out and ran it up pretty quick, but like I said, most of the profits came from sports betting. I bet more than 1k several times so 500$ heads up wasn't necessarily a big buy in to us.

So, had you fulfilled the terms of the new player bonus?

MGM_Scammed_Me,

Some general points here:
-You should keep records of all your communication with the operator.

-In the first instance, if you are unhappy with their initial decision, contact them directly, and let them know why.

-If, after directly explaining your point of view, you continue to have a dispute, ask for the issue to be escalated for re-review.

-Many legitimate gaming operators have licenses from Governments where they "operate". In the case of many online operators, the jurisdiction that they "operate" in are where their servers are located. If you continue to be unhappy, you can approach the regulator with your concerns. You can obtain the contact details either by searching on the internet, or by asking the gaming site to give them to you.

-If the regulator is not an option, or does not satisfactorily resolve your concern, you may be able to consider taking legal action. Please consult a professional legal adviser for further assistance with this.

-You'll get more sympathy from the forum if you post - clearly - a copy of all correspondence with the site. You should also proof read what you write to them (and post on this forum).

I would assume that most sites by now properly quarantine bonus funds (and winnings using any free money) until whatever conditions are cleared, which technically would mean a person cannot transfer or dump the free money until it is in fact cleared.

Obviously this has not always been the case, and I lost count of the number of glitches that used to exist in the good old days including larger rooms like Party at the time.

Still, it certainly to me it feels like the OP is leaving something out and he and his brother tried to move money for some reason. While one can say the way they did it would be too stupid for anyone to do, the reality is most of the people caught use about the same level of sense when coming up with their plans to move money.

If the OP provides a full accounting of all conversations (very rare in these types of threads by new posters) then perhaps this will turn out to be that unusual situation where a couple people through sheer accident and incompetence copied the behavior of fraud purveyors before them, but the math of past threads like this show that is not the betting favorite.

They could maybe use the Corey and Trevor dummies defence?