I hear you but the actual hight of the rake % is a different discussion then the change from dealt to wc. The latter is a fairer system for all, there's really not much room for debate on that imho.

There is room for debate on changes in the VIP program since you could say it is based on an old system.

I don't necesarilly agree that the changes are bad for our bottomline as a whole, I already explained this. I don't have any numbers on this but if I think logically about what happens to every $ I can easily come to the conclusion these changes are actually good for the poker economy thus good for our bottom line.

Also, Stars isn't discouraging high volume play, it's, indirectly, discouraging extremely tight play, there's a very big difference. There are high volume players who stand to gain from these changes.

I think now is a good time for a good old fashioned riddle.

Q: How many thousands of times does it it have to be posted that this change hurts more than just mass tablers, and more than just nits?


A: No idea. We'll let you know when we get there.

the thing isnt that they are changing the system, THAT i can agree is good for the poker ecosystem as a whole , as we will get out the speculators living on other peoples play. The problem is when they change it in a way that totally remove most of the value from the system. the numbers are very good explained in some post earlyer in this thred, and really, this will kill lots of games since they no longer can be beaten.
All games needs winners to be popular, that goes for poker too. If noone was winners, noone would se the point in playing. If all they did was taking some value from the top, and give it back in the bottom then the winners would be able to regain the money by playing against the fish, but this is not happening, because stars are pocketing most of the money.

Well if rake wasn't so big and rakeback wasn't so pathetic small and some cases close to zero, then those players might not be struggling to show positive profit graphs!!!

I am not much of a cash grinder when it comes to Holdem or Omaha (i play fixd stud 1/2-10/20 and sngs/mtts more), but I join fellow players in fight for justice, because if we let Stars act with us like we were trash, then I am sure it is only a matter of time when they start doing the same with mtt/sng players. It is 'wise' to start robbing each group at a time, starting from cash grinders, later moving to sng grinders and finally ending with increased mtt rake, BECAUSE THATS HOW OTHER SIDES ROLL!

I pity fools here who do not play cash and say it doesn't touch them. Probably stars didnt want to divide poker community, but even that worked in their favor.

Being from post Soviet country I can say that PokerStars is starting to remind me Soviet Union, when you had the money, but you didn't have where to spend it, because all production was militarized. You could buy AK47, but had to wait in lines for bread that was for sale twice a week. Meanwhile Pokerstars slightly increase rakeback for micro fishes, but removes everything from vip store what might be useful (bread) and leaves toy sharks (AK47s). If you know what I'm trying to say.

SovietPoker ftw

Multi tabling FR FLH is pretty much dead through this change!

I played 1012 hands yesterday earning 42 vpp's, last year that would have been 82, that almost 50% decrease!!

So no more 16 tabling since there really is no incentive for that anymore. Profits that's all that counts, so it will be BUMPHUNTING * BUMPHUNTING and play far less tables.

It's a loose/loose situation in general.


I propose we all go to Cake or Everest where there is still a dealt method.

^

- 1k hands isn't a very big sample, play a few more
- in Jan there's a higher fish to reg ratio, as the regs take a slight break in session length. in FLH (especially FR) it's hard to overcome the influence of W/C even playing a LAG style, since fish's WTSD is so high, its hard to benefit from W/C without becoming a losing player. VPP/hand will rise next month
- yeah, in the mean time try to make better use of the game quality right now by playing 6m, or less FR tables but higher stakes
- cake sucks for more important reasons, security, traffic, software, 8 week cashouts, be careful

fyp

what about the other person using your account? he might be getting a lower rate considering how LP he is.

Yes thinking of that too, thanks for your reply also thanks thrust, felt so bad

Just go there noone gives a ****

Got a PM from Pokerstars Chris and its now been sorted in a reasonably fast manner.

stars isn't treating anyone like trash,but that is how a lot of you guys deserve to be treated.

Why so angry? Bubbled a freeroll or something?

+1

I dont understand why this is such a big deal. I mean the new system is fair. You get points for the money you put in the pot. Why should anyone get points for a pot where they didnt contribute to?

If internet poker was invented now, and people were asked which system they prefer, I believe this new way to calculate would win the vote. If the old system was flawed and its corrected people whine. Just let it go and dont stress yourself too much about it.. imo.

Because you didn't read and follow it and don't know that it isn't purely about W/C rake as a concept, you just see all the trolls assuming it is.

Edit: in a nutshell the protesters are pushing for other VIP program adjustments that would both keep the fairness and compensate for the unequitable distribution of FPPs, as well as trying to make sure the revenues stars saves are used to improve other unfair things, lower microstakes rake, etc. etc. it's all lost under the noise. Sure there are some nits upset at a hit to their bottom line too but that can't be avoided.

Oh, Ok then. I guess I need to do some more reading then. I apologise for my ingnorance.

Sent them an email because of the ban 18h ago and they don't even bother to reply.
All I wanted to know was for how long I could only play 1 table.
Seriously I'm done with this people. I'll take my money and play somewhere else.
I wish the people who fights the cause the best luck in the world but at this time our efforts are completely useless.

I will be forever angry at stars because of their greed, however it were 6 good/fun years. I'll always miss the old stars.

gl everyone.

great idea

I hope some others guys will do this, too.

lol, no one can beat poker anymore

so your able to play now?

Cake doesn't payout in a timely manner. Games are great though

Switch to 6 max LHE. The impact would not be as bad. Your not going to get much volume going to Cake that is for sure. Not sure about Everest but I doubt it even comes close to Stars.

Just wondering why some of us got a table reduction while others got banned.

I sat out on ten cash games and was on prob like 25 wait lists and got the one table cash game max. I can still play MTT and SnGs to my hearts content.

No ban stick here either, sat out on 12-24 games for 1 hour or so as well as waitlists etc.