***Mass Sitout to Protest PokerStars 2012 Rake Changes*** - Page 66 - Internet Poker

I love how the 1% who benefited from the VIP program (and still would) are planning to sit out and hurt the 99%, while trying to call it some type of occupy movement. '

Oh the ironing.

no doubt, theres lots of ways to look at it. in fact, it'll be a small miracle if even 5% of the people who come across those sitting out actually takeaway some benefit.

I'm not at all looking forward to sitting out, and if I'm wrong I will end up feeling like a bit of an idiot.

I'd rather be working towards my 2012 hand volume goals or taking shots at higher stakes...

but thats going to have to wait because I think these changes seem bad for me in the long term and I'd like to make a point of that.

tl;dr in spoiler

Spoiler:

Last edited by datsmahname; 01-01-2012 at 04:17 AM.

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01-01-2012 , 04:04 AM

#1627

starvingwriter82

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 7,793

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoe

I love how the 1% who benefited from the VIP program (and still would) are planning to sit out and hurt the 99%, while trying to call it some type of occupy movement. '

Oh the ironing.

The only ironing here is that you think this change is only bad for 1% of players.

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01-01-2012 , 04:13 AM

#1628

datsmahname

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 4,164

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoe

Hello 4max table limit per player. Starting tomorrow. Thank yourselves.

If pokerstars decides to resolve our protest by making changes to the software that prevent people from mass sitting out, then it would be a kind of uncharacteristic and sobering decision. They usually seem to take our concerns to heart, and I hope its not just a line.

I think they'd probably max out the number of tbales a player could be sitting out at... or prevent players from joining to sit out... There are lots of other small adjustments that they could try to impliment rather than capping the # of tables for all players.

If protesting by mass sitting out is actually stupid, preventing the protest by massively restricting table limits for all players is certainly not the smart solution.

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01-01-2012 , 04:17 AM

#1629

luckproof

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,935

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerStars Steve

We did see requests to delay making the change to Weighted Contributed until after we have completed discussions with players. However, unlike the rake % and cap changes that were announced only on forums, the WC change has already been announced on our web site and on the client to all of our players two days ago. While some of the players protesting this change are amongst our highest volume players, the vast majority of players who are aware of this change are not protesting it and many will benefit. We simply can’t reverse this change at this point.

Dear Steve,

Your condescension is at an all-time high. By not revealing any data about your claims you have made it abundantly clear you are either incompetent or the worst con man I have ever encountered. This pure horse **** you constantly spew is getting us nowhere. We all know the vast majority of players don't know the difference between dealt and WC. OMG it was announced on your website!!! Are you serious? Your proposed changes, the way you announced them, and the way you handled our reaction is disgusting. You have no argument, no defense, and no respect. This strike will continue. **** your BS meeting on the IOM and your NDA's. This can be resolved without either of those and you know it. Stop stalling and get someone from PS who can actually make some decisions. You are clearly not qualified for this discussion and are just wasting our time.

I will sit out for a year on your site and pick fruit for a living if thats what it takes.

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01-01-2012 , 04:22 AM

#1630

datsmahname

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 4,164

fwiw, PokerStars Steve is one of my favorite weekly segments on the PokerCast. He usually just speaks his mind, doesn't provide us with a whole lot of BS "party" lines, and he wakes up at crazy hours to do it.

I hope that doesn't change either. Having someone from stars who can just talk about changes or future changes is awesome. Yes, he has a job to do and he has a certain perspective in part because of that... and its not like he's making every decision. Sure, he's going to take a lot of crap regardless... but I like PokerStars Steve.

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01-01-2012 , 04:25 AM

#1631

starvingwriter82

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Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 7,793

Quote:

Originally Posted by datsmahname

I have no problem with Steve. He seems like a nice enough guy in all my interactions with him.

I assume that just about everything he says on this topic has to come from higher up.

In short, I don't blame the man, but it seems like the bag his boss is making him carry is full of horse ****.

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01-01-2012 , 04:26 AM

#1632

luckproof

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,935

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoe

I love how the 1% who benefited from the VIP program (and still would) are planning to sit out and hurt the 99%, while trying to call it some type of occupy movement. '

Oh the ironing.

You are either an imbecile, or a troll. Either way we are trying to help you, so sit back, relax, and watch some porn while we try to lower your rake. You can thank us by using this same logic at the poker table

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01-01-2012 , 04:27 AM

#1633

Mrtrebus

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,962

Quote:

Originally Posted by datsmahname

+1. I truly believe hes a good guy.

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01-01-2012 , 04:42 AM

#1634

TheBigBopper

newbie

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 28

This sit out protest could turn into a real PR disaster for PS. If it becomes a news story it will have such a negative effect on their overall reputation and ability to atract new players that it could cost them more than they ever would have generated by these current changes.
In their shoes I'd do whatever it takes to stop the protest gathering momentum.

Last edited by TheBigBopper; 01-01-2012 at 05:04 AM.

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01-01-2012 , 04:42 AM

#1635

datsmahname

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Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 4,164

He definitely is. We give guys like that tons of crap because its seems like the easiest way to get their attention, call them all kinds of terrible things... but I think if we sit back and think about it we know he isn't getting a fair shake.

I wish there were some good ways to meet with Stars on common ground. I'd rather drink a pint, watch the game, and talk about why these changes seem like such a bad idea than get all angry or cause other people to have a crappy day.

Sitting out is a pretty measured approach... but if i could choose it wouldn't be this.

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01-01-2012 , 04:46 AM

#1636

datsmahname

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 4,164

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBigBopper

This sit out protest could turn into a real PR disaster for PS. If it becomes a news story it will have such a negative effect on their overall reputation and ability to atract new players that it could cost PS more than they ever would have generated by these current changes.
In their shoes I'd what whatever it takes to stop the protest gathering momentum.

Yeah you could be right. Its an uphill battle for a story like this though. I think this would be inherently tough to explain in 30 seconds on TV, nevermind expecting a news team to understand the whole thing.

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01-01-2012 , 04:49 AM

#1637

Cherufe

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 306

Guys now is the time to make the push...
Use local forums, twitter, facebook or whatever to spread the word!

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01-01-2012 , 04:51 AM

#1638

Squibz

adept

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrtrebus

+1. I truly believe hes a good guy.

I lost all respect for him when he said on the pokercast something like "some players think the rake on SNGs is not high enough because they want to make supernova faster" or some BS like that. He works for Stars, he's not on our side, sorry to break it to you if you hadn't already noticed.

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01-01-2012 , 05:02 AM

#1639

pokeraras

newbie

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 15

This protest is stupid. You are acting like Pokerstars labor. If you dont like a room, you have many other choices, no?

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01-01-2012 , 05:05 AM

#1640

datsmahname

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 4,164

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokeraras

This protest is stupid. You are acting like Pokerstars labor. If you dont like a room, you have many other choices, no?

running from things you don't like is maybe 'the' other option. I wouldn't be thrilled to change rooms though.

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01-01-2012 , 05:05 AM

#1641

AllTheSmallThings

stranger

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 13

plo100-600 so far -25% vpps...

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01-01-2012 , 05:08 AM

#1642

blueodum

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,295

Rec players benefit from this change. They are the lifeblood of a poker site. It is interesting how few of you talk about this in anything but disparaging terms. You do realize that losing players are something like 80% of the player pool, right?

You regs will go wherever the fish are. Volume players already have massive VIP rewards at Stars. So just go somewhere else and get a better deal if one is out there.

You have your happy hour and your pace for January. Show some class and send your reps to IoM and make a rational case for your position, instead of sitting out.

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01-01-2012 , 05:14 AM

#1643

HH73

stranger

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherufe

Guys now is the time to make the push...
Use local forums, twitter, facebook or whatever to spread the word!

3PM Brasilia
4PM Sydney
5PM London

I dont know what they should be, but I do know those times cant all be right!

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01-01-2012 , 05:17 AM

#1644

SKEEZ

adept

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 703

fair sure the sydney time is on the Jan 2nd

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01-01-2012 , 05:19 AM

#1645

datsmahname

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 4,164

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueodum

its more like 70%, and its true that some recreational players will benifit. Its also true that most of the players who will benifit are only recreational players. For instance, this arguably has no impact on heads up players and lots of them are recreational, but not all.

However, the real issue imo is that the average cost to play at pokerstars is being increased. This means all players regardless of their playing style.

I play about 36% of the hands dealt at 6max games. I'm not a rakeback grinder... however, I still paid 5.3K last year in rake and recieved only 800 in rakeback (15%).

For me, reducing my rakeback is an absurd change. I pay plenty to play at the site and I'm not just going to accept an arbitrary increase in the cost to play.

Yes, weighted contributed rakeback is a great idea... but 12% or maybe 10% rakeback instead of 15% rakeback given the same volume of play and stakes is arbitrarily expensive. I play 95% of my hand volume at stars, I have for years. They've never done anything for me. I've requested very little from them, and now they're going to increase my cost to play at their site.

Sitting out in protest is not a classless action. Its non-violent non-cooperation and a very elegant way for ordinary people to protest.

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01-01-2012 , 05:27 AM

#1646

blueodum

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,295

Quote:

Yes, weighted distributed rakeback is a great idea... but 12% or maybe 10% rakeback instead of 15% rakeback given the same volume of play and stakes is arbitrarily expensive. I play 95% of my hand volume at stars, I have for years. They've never done anything for me. I've requested very little from them, and now they're going to increase my cost to play at their site.

With such low rakeback, you must not be a high volume player. Ask yourself why the proposals put forward here by the high-volume players do not target benefits to players like you. If you are silver or gold your multiplier should go up, since it is far too low in comparison to SN and SNE. Your FPP should be worth just as much in the store as a supernova, yet for some items they are not.

None of these people here are fighting for these changes. You have a much greater chance of benefiting from dollars that Stars might spend to bring new players to the site.

Since you are not a tight player I expect that these changes might favor you substantially, when you add in the extra promotions Stars might run with the money they are legitimately taking from the high volume tight players. It is important for you to know that under the now defunct dealt rake method, the tighter players at your table were getting VPP that were rightfully yours (of course many pro-strikers do not want you to be aware of this fact). WC is designed to help redress this injustice.

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01-01-2012 , 05:30 AM

#1647

jspill

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Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 8,644

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueodum

Ask yourself why the proposals put forward here by the high-volume players do not target benefits to players like you.

jesus f christ we are fighting for him, stars is the one reducing benefits across the board, we are striking to raise the FPP multiplier across all VIP levels including low volume ones, lower caps and microstakes rake.

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01-01-2012 , 05:34 AM

#1648

krmont22

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Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 8,078

Quote:

Originally Posted by starvingwriter82

Taking out the $25 bonus is just a pointless dick move aimed at putting the hurt on micro stakes guys. Disappointing.

I can't believe this is true....Please someone tell me this isn't true! I really love Stars and have still been giving them the benefit of the doubt in all of this, but if their plan is to redistribute fpps to micro players while taking away their fpp to cash bonus.....I'm just left speechless.

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01-01-2012 , 05:36 AM

#1649

blueodum

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,295

Quote:

jesus f christ we are fighting for him, stars is the one reducing benefits across the board,

What are you talking about? By definition if you put more money in the pot than your average opponent you are indisputably benefiting from this change. How can the benefits be reduced ACROSS THE BOARD? That would be completely absurd.