I like looking like an ass, and I'm not trolling my coaching. I'm stating my opinion on how silly all this is, and how silly all the losing stars SNE'ers are. Ask a stars SNE'er what their VPP/hand is and theyd give you an amount exact to the nearest 1000th of a decimal. Ask them what their winrate is, and theyd have no idea.

Anyway, I'm done being a thread hijacking cockwagon. I just couldn't hold back anymore. Wish you guys luck in your protests though. I'm interested to see if it accomplishes anything.

its not about vpp per hand its about an effective raise in rake! Disco how do you not realize that if we roll over for this rake increase whats to prevent another one in the future? At what point do you stand up and say enough is enough? When the rake is 100+% and poker just becomes another casino table game??

Win rate is directly dependent on rake size, if i pay 1bb/100 more in rake then my win rate decreases that much, so this IS us worried about our win rates!

FWIW im not a 24 tabler, i play 200nl 4-6 tables with a nice positive win rate, BUT like everyone else (including you) this effective increase in rake directly negatively effects my overall winrate

I'm doing the sit out and planning on moving money around unnecessarily around to and from MoneyBookers in spite.

I think your missing the point.

1. The game conditions are at a point where WR @ some games (FRLHE) are so low that the decrease in rakeback will actually kill the game.

2. Most players accept the changes on how the VPP's are awarded but don't accept the loss of value from the communtity. (FPP mult.)

3. The reduction in rakeback should at least come with a supplement to the players; like a higher FPP multiplier or lower rake.

+1. million.

You do realize rakeback is money, don't you? It's a pretty good chunk of your original winnings before they were raked. Why are you arguing with a bunch of people who are trying to lower the rake for you? A tad ungrateful if you ask me.

Pokerstars pays a fee to receive and send money so all I'm doing is costing them more to have me play poker with them. It won't benefit me, but it's not costing me anything either.

L
O
L

PokerStars has contacted a few users in private in order to make a trip to the Isle of Man in mid-to-late January.

In order to create a unified voice that PokerStars will have an easier time hearing a group of us have held discussions about how best to proceed.

This group consists of JH1, TheMetetrown, MSauce, Starvingwriter82, and Hood. Klairic has been invited but has not responded to the invitation yet. The community is free to suggest other participants for these discussions.

A majority of the group has drafted a letter for Steve/PokerStars that we think represents the views of the group and the community as a whole.

Below I have posted the letter and added our signatures to it. Please quote it and sign your name or simply +1 it if you agree.

Also, feel free to post any comments or concerns.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Open letter to PokerStars Steve,

After talking with players heavily involved in these discussions, we feel that it would be inappropriate to delay negotiations into mid to late January given the impending switch to WC and the immediate, unacceptable reduction in VIP benefits for our supporters and the player pool as a whole.

We do not feel the need to see much, if any, sensitive information such as PokerStars' profits or business plan. We simply want to talk about the reductions in player benefits from the players' standpoint. We feel that any of the numbers we would be discussing involving rake caps, rake percentages, True vs Incremental rake, and Table-VPP multipliers etc. would be made open to the public and analyzed by the community, having no bearing on PokerStars inner business workings.

We would like to propose an alternative method of communication that would alleviate these concerns and hold these discussions online, either through a dedicated locked thread on 2+2 or through a private discussion group of which the results would be made public. Our goal is to preserve as much transparency in these discussions as possible.

We expect that the player community would delay their planned sit out if PokerStars is willing to defer the implementation of WC or any other VIP/Rake changes until negotiations are completed, effectively keeping the existing VIP structure in place until negotiations are finalized.

Thanks for your consideration,

Josh (JH1)
Mazin (MSauce)
Nick (TheMetetrown)
Issac (starvingwriter82)

Agreed 100%

+1

+1.

+1

Sorry disco you're way off. Even winners are affected by rakeback, if I can make 10k/month and one way gives me 2k/month in rb and the other way gives me 3k/month in rb, that's an extra 12k/year I make even if it may seem negligible. That's a lot of hookers.

i do luv them hookers

+1 to the letter drafted

+1

sounds good. thank a ton for the time and effort you guys put into this. much appreciated

+1

I'd also add that the games aren't getting any softer. Winrates, on the whole, are only going to continue to decline. Even for the best of us, rakeback will continue to be an increasingly large portion of our overall earn. Neglecting the issue today because you think you'll maintain your current earn rate forever is simply foolish.

+1 to that letter

+1

+1

+1 to the letter-good stuff, guys!

+1

+1