It also make assumptions that regulars never tilt and bust their rolls and have to deposit again. Believe me, more than only fish sometimes have to deposit.

Bottom line, this isn't at all relevant to the thread. So move it to PM if need be.

+1 to sitting out in FL 6handed.


Unlike most of the online poker community, they've been extremely fortunate this year to gain the lions share of the player activity.

Its extremely deceptive behavior for them to change the cost to play at their site without making it clear to the 'buyers'.

The cost of allowing rake increases to be implemented can hardly be overstated.

Sitting out in protest is +EV over the long haul.

One thing i haven't noticed anyone state yet [granted i haven't read every post ITT] you don't have to participate in the sit-out to support the movement against stars changes, simply not playing on the site after 12pm ET sunday is definitely sufficient enough action.

So instead of encouraging people to table-block and thats that, you should probably also state other potential options that players can do to but pressure on stars, that doesn't involve mass table blocking.

Another idea i think could be very effective is to encourage people to make withdrawls of some of their rolls/excess cash above their "required/minimum" bankrools after 12pm ET sunday unless stars agrees to do skype negotiations asap and delay the changes. For example lets say Grinder A wants to have 100BI in his account at all times for the games he plays, but he currently has ~150+ BI's, if a lot of people start making withdrawls, thats something stars doesn't want.

IMO just focusing 100% on the sit-out is too narrow a thinking

Well said. While actively participating in the sit out is perhaps the best option, there are plenty of things players can do to get involved:

- Send e-mail to Pokerstars support

- Send PMs, tweets, facebook notes, etc. to anyone relevant to the conversation

- Pledge to stop play after January 1, 2012.

- Translate the message and spread it to other poker forums (this is a big one, I'm not sure how much of this has been done, and the person that did it for the Chinese site was a huge win for us!)

- Participate in forum threads

- Spread the word to other players who may not know about upcoming changes

- Withdraw excess funds from your poker account (make sure to leave enough to sit out 24, and let support know the reason for your withdrawal!)

.... and probably more that I'm missing.

All the help is appreciated, because it's for all of us.

Quinn132-

You did a fantastic job of expressing Pokerstars ultimate objectives in a clear manner that everyone can understand. I doubt anyone can deny that this is what Pokerstars wants.

The fact is Pokerstars has to share that money with winning players. That's right... all 4% of us. Without us winners... losing players would have nothing to hope for. In laymans terms people play the slots knowing that it's a losing game overall but want to play because they see the lights flash and the sirens go off on someone elses machine and put a coin in hoping their machince goes next. Without a chance to win no one would play slots.... and for this example no one would play poker.

Therefore you are correct that the depositors/producers are the ones who ultimately feed the lifeline of online poker but without Pros marginal players would have nothing to strive for.

Pokerstars knows this too and celebrates it and tries it's best to sell the dream. Why else would Jorg95, Needbeer, and Nanoko be Online Pros? They are out there to remind casual players that with hard work and a little luck they too can make lots of money. Obviously this won't happen for most, but the dream is what's being sold.

1. rake caps of .5/1/1.5/2/3 for 2/3/4/5/6+ handed play
2. linear rake, 3.5% at .01/.02; 3.75% at .02/.05; 4% at .05/.1; 4.25% at .1/25 and .25/.5; 4.5% at .5/1 and higher
3. new rake caps, 1$ at .01/.02 up to .05/.1; 1.5$ at .1/.25; 2$ .5/1; 2.5$ 1/2; 3$ at 2/4 and higher
4. something that makes sense for FL


I want to put this forward as an official suggestion / 'demand' that I'd like to see considered and discussed. I have explained it in more detail in the other thread, but I believe this to be a full compensation for the change to WC that will benefit games on Stars as a whole the most.

If all the currently winning players were removed from the player pool what would happen? Other players that usually lost or broke even would become the winners, those players would not have to deposit anymore and there would be less money in total. There would be less hands played so the sites rake would be less.

Also regs are not people from outside poker that come to take money from the poker economy, we are a huge part of the poker economy. We become regs because we put in the time and effort to get better at the game. We start out the same as anyone else. We put our money at risk the same as anyone else.

I stated earlier ITT that I initially thought the sit out meant boycott. And I am on the sit out list, but actually was only planning on simply not playing at stars come Jan 1. (Maybe remove me from the list?) I play 10 nl, so dont know if my 4-6 table (learning phase) sit out would be more than a unnoticed waste of time at worst and an ignorable inconvenience at best, since I dont think mass micro players will even be paying that much attention to the current situation. Please state your stance, fellow micro players, maybe I am wrong....

However, I deem it important to support the community, even if I am a micro player, I guess every voice can make an impact.

So my message to PS is this: Since my goal is to get involved in higher stakes as well as more volume, I will pay my rake and do my 2-4k hands/day that I have been doing since October, from Jan. 1st on at other sites (where I have 30%RB anyway, but liked playing at stars).

If stars revamps their stance then I would be happy to return. If not, in my stakes and volume, it is more than easy to find an alternative.

Not much, but I hope it helps....

I have previously excluded myself from cashgames, but today I opted in again. It will take 24 hours for the change to go through, but on the 1st of January I am ready to play again. Just so I can show my support to Stars!

I hope that Stars bans every single one of you. There are hudreds of different pokersites, if you dont like the rake at one of them, move your action to another site. But to block tables - and therefore:

a) Pissing the fishes off even more with your behaviour
b) Informing the fishes about this "rake thing"

you are just hurting yourself in the long run.

Go play on Ongame. Go play on iPoker. Go play on PartyPoker, or any other site.

Poker isn't linear... If games got softer losing player would have more winning sessions and easily could be more inclined to redeposit after they went broke or think that they could beat the games now. They might enjoy playing against softer competition more in general. There's so much to say why this paragraph is just missing a lot, but w/e...

This is exactly how it should be done! Move your action, withdraw your money, and email Stars with your decision.

this coming from a guy with a "TAKE ACTION" fist avatar.

oh, the ironing.

Speak English please.

As far as I see it: 50NL and above would pay slightly higher rake while NL25 and below would pay significantly less rake!?

Isn't the majority of fish at those stakes? Isn't that worth pursuing so fish money goes into reg's pockets and not down the rake faucet???

I am FOR the proposed changes.

My point was, if you get rid of the people who are taking money out now (winners) you dont stop the money leaving, somebody else will win. You do end up with a lot less hands been played though, less games running etc.

Who are you referring to?

That's kinda obvious.

Ran the script.

In November and December I played ~67000 hands at 1/2, 2/4 and 3/6 SH.
With dealt method I "made" 6256$ rake, with WC I would only make 5564$!
Playing 31/24 style.

That is pretty sick drop.

I'd be willing to consider this. I've played for a living for about 5 years playing from $25NL-$400NL 6-max including some recent microstakes play courtesy of Black Friday and treating my poker account like a bank account. Years ago I played LHE up to 10/20 and LO8 up to 20/40 but I am undoubtedly out of touch with the modern state of those games now.

I am also microstakes player, and i will do the sitout for as long as it takes. This changes will afect me a little, but not as mutch as for the people that have their income from poker. It is important that as many players as possible sits on as many stakes as possible, because in the long run, some of us microstake players will be developing into experienced players able to make money on poker. As long as we dont let Stars destroy the possible ways to do this.

i just hate my countryi get rapedfor 200 usd in a table dance, the world i so sad guys just fight for all please...

TY itaba

Have anyone been thinking about an sms campaign? what if everyone here on the forum started to send sms to every Starsplayer they know, explaining why and when to sit out, and again asking this players to send to every player they know? Then alot more people would know what is going on and for what reason we strike.

sick drop? yes, but what is this?



13/10 NL100 FR, yes, i know, the typical nitty grinder, no winrate, leeching the system of the dealt method.

oh, wait:

you got my vote.

"Sick drop" for FL SH LAG, who would kill for 0.5BB/100 winrate
Can't comment on your NL FR stats, I have no clue for that game.

I(3yr supernova FR uNL) nominate JH1 or Ricepaw1226 as I believe they represent my interests.

I am proud of how organized the poker community is. Teamwork ftw. I will not be a scab come Jan 2012.


TY to all players here. TY for being even more knowledgeable than me so u can very accurately represent our interests and protect the very few winning players there are.