Ok I didnt want to come out with some of this but recent events have forced me to.

I now notice that poker stars have a rule in place that if you use your ffps to register to a sat and win it you have to play that tournament.

if you were to truly ask what poker stars sells its not really poker lots of places provide that. its a dream. its the money maker effect. its the fact that if your good enough and dedicated enough you really can turn $40 into a million with enough effort drive and hours.

now people may be wondering where im going with this, there's already a thread about ffps sats. well is there one about them bringing these new jackpot sngs that there trying on pokerstars France i think it is it may be Belgium?

has anyone ever really thought about this? some people think there a good idea but there missing the whole point of whats happening here.

I currently have been working hard on building a bank roll i dont claim to be the big deal or the best or etc. i worked hard to turn $40 into 1k plus and i know thats nothing compared to many people on here.

but one thing that gave me comfort along the way of playing hyper turbos when my roll was stagnent or even in decline was that i was building a second roll with points. currently i have saved up just under 8000 points. the comfort is that should i ever go broke i have over $100 in points.

like many people i aspire to reach the top, you can berate me or call me an idiot point out ill never do it i've seen how harsh people can be on these forums. you may be right.

but the fact is what keeps me playing is the knowledge that if I'm good enough and I work hard enough i can. Yes thats an if but it motivates me and many people like me to play.

I am a winning player but not really one worth mentioning.

it seems now poker sites are targeting winning players im not talking about a rig im talking about other ways.

there isn't easy money to be had online anymore. most games even the best players have low margins. and for a lot of games anything beyond dimes most players will have negative graphs which are + after rakeback.

some games this isn't the case and win rates like 30%+ can be seen but these are for mtts which have huge variance i have a friend who grinds them for a living and he regularly has downswings of 1000+ playing 10 and under.

if you look at hype's very few players have + rois now for super nova and super nova elite that's fine they can buy the $1600 bonus eventually. but for the rest of players who get small rake back as it is this isn't a realistic target. saving up ffps and using them to earn t$ is the way most relatively average or slightly above average players (as there winners before rake,) survive fight on and grow.

currently i dont play above $10 games but eventually when my roll reaches the right size ill take my shot. that's traffic which is needed. i cant get anything close to supernova unless i play a lot more which i cant do and have a job and i cant quit work and rely on poker full time as things currently are.

the alternative is to play higher which of course has a high risk of broke. this in effect threatening a situation where the only people that can grind a living or even break even + are high volume players achieving supernova people who are willing to consistently deposit lose to the rake and keep the discipline one day knowing if they can hit supernova they can make money from poker.

with the jackpot sit and goes its nice to think you can turn $1 into $1000 by a lucky hit but i hate that idea.

recently i had someone who wants me to quit nag me and i said there's no point in mentioning my roll because if i had anything above $1000 they'd nag me to cash out and anything less theyd say i was wasting my time.

there response was if i was a cocaine addict went to vegas ad bet everything i had on black and came back with a million they wouldn't tell me to keep playing roulette. no point in breaking down the logical response your all familiar with this and etc.

if i win a jack pot sit and go though and win a grand i effectively did get lucky it was effectively roulette. if instead i do what i have done playing $1 games until i had 100 buy ins for anything else and gradually took up past $1000 that's not luck, a waste of time? pathetic compared to others laughable maybe.

but its still something done on more then luck. there are many many players like me most wont ever make it big most like me have full time jobs and cant quite them for poker and wouldn't. going on pure statistics youd have to bet against me ever doing it. But i want to fight for it for the challenge, for the dream.

if this remains most players wont be able to make it big without huge volume or playing losing for a long time until they hit supernova.

that's not realistic i can justify poker as a hobby i enjoy that makes me pocket change i cant justify it as a hobby im investing thousands into hoping one day to make money from.

jackpot sit and goes will remove the fish from other games. ffps not been able to generate proper rb through satellites will kill the the prospects of a grind. heck most players like me get less then 25% rake back anyway. 5.5 points per $. silver star 2*5.5=11 11*1.6= 17.6+ 5% for stella 22.6

new way 1.11*11=12.21+5=17.21% its ridiculous. all the poker sites are turning away from favoring grinders to favoring gamblers. and fish more you want to do it right then reduce the fpp program slightly by a negligible amount im talking 1% and do the golden sit and go theme with 1000 times buyin occasionally. i understand itd be like 1 in a million but then the fish can have there jackpots and there dream and those that want to make an effort can have there's.

im not good at communication but if you people cant realize whats happening before its to late there wont be much of a poker ecosystem left. i don't want to play roulette i want to earn gambling wins there's no sense of accomplishment or challenge any other way.

if i want the way its moving id just buy a lottery ticket.

Sound like you can either get better to keep beating your games or follow the fishes to the jackpot.

no but the fact is its still doable and people like me have hope with the right effort if were just going to create huge variance jackpots and have games with very low even negative returns which require full time play before effective rb then your killing the games.

fact is players like me make up a very large proportion of the games and without us you wouldnt get as many games

You do realize the jackpot sngs are all 3-man tables, right? It's not like they're splitting the 9/10-man sng traffic.

yes but many of the fish who would have played 9 man games will head there instead. its already at the point if you want to play anything above 1.50 sngs half the table are regs and im beating those games but come on its bad enough as it is we dont need more fish taken away.

find me many regs playing single table sngs with an roi above 5% at any stake above above 3.5 youd be hard pushed infact you can find them lower but its still rare. and if you go to $15 games and up its very rare to find a positive roi. i regularly went to sng lobby and shark scoped entire tables to get a feel for whats possible if i reach higher limits.

the margins are small as it is players like me are the inbetweens pros that do it for a living and fish. if most of my kind are left in the dark without much opportunity then berate me for all i care but when thousands of me stop the games wont run as much and that hurts everyones bottom line.

I just did the math. There's only an effective 5% rake on these, regardless of level. I'm betting you're probably paying higher rake than that (though you mentioned hypers, not sure what the rake is on those). Assuming you play these long-run, if they're more filled with fish, and you don't mind the higher variance, they should help your bottom line, not hurt it (assuming you can adapt your game for the 3-man winner-take-all format).

well i do mind the variance i mean 100 buyins for hypers is risky as it is, ive had an 80 buyin downswing before and i beat them. its tolerable at the moment but more would be silly. further you cant game select i can always unregister if i see 5+ red marked players.

few other things i didnt think about first, the hypers at the moment arent easy to beat before rake, 5% is more then the rake on the hypers and the edge for a 3 way hyper is smaller then the edge for a 6 or 9 man hyper. further the less players the harder multi tabling is, currently i can do 12-16 tables. with 3 player hypers id struggle to do 6.

its time i changed the terrible thread title



Not sure what to do with this thread - it covers some philosophical ground that's been covered before, and almost belongs in NVG. But I guess I'll leave it alone for now and see where it goes; if other Zoo mods feel it should be elsewhere they're welcome to do as they see fit.

So then don't play hypers or jackpots? If you can't multi table then don't?

Seems like you need to stop worrying about another game taking "your" fish and start studying and developing your game...

Poker is become more widely played every year, if you waste your time worrying about the other fish your probably going to stagnate and become one yourself... Just my humble opinion...

The thread is outdated because Stars shortly restored the right to get T$ by unregistering from the target tourney (in most cases, i.e. unless specified otherwise in the lobby).

Speaking of *Full Tilt* jackpot SnGs (not to be confused with iPoker ones!), they're totally playable (with 200-300 BI BRM), the main Internet Poker thread about them is this one (there's also an old one about Twister from the times when only Winamax and iPoker had this format) and there's also discussion in strategy forums, like this thread in HUSnG.