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Old 01-08-2012, 11:55 AM   #151
lilwhaldo
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

go get em op good luck!
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Old 01-08-2012, 12:24 PM   #152
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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go get em op good luck!
Hey thanks

First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. Then they attack you.

Then you win!
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Old 01-08-2012, 04:15 PM   #153
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

http://blackslawdictionary.org/contract/
Quote:
Contract

An agreement, upon sufficient consideration, to do or not to do a particular tiling.

A covenant or agreement between two or more persons, with a lawful consideration or cause.

A deliberate engagement between competent parties, upon a legal consideration, to do or abstain from doing, some act.

A contract or agreement is either where a promise Is made on one side and assented to on the other; or where two or more persons enter into engagement with each other by a promise on either side.

A contract is an agreement by which one person obligates himself to another to give, to do or permit, or not to do something expressed or implied by such agreement.

A contract is an agreement to do or not to do a certain thing.
Does your version show anything different?
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Old 01-08-2012, 06:28 PM   #154
newschool
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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http://blackslawdictionary.org/contract/


Does your version show anything different?
So we are in agreement then?

It's not my version. It's contract law. I gave you the elements from memory. As this is not my first time in the sandbox, so to speak.

All you did was copy and paste the definition of a contract. So what? Isn't that what I just said? So we are agreeing? You do realize the definition of contract, is not the same thing, as the elements that make up one?

It has already been admitted to ITT. That they did not provide full disclosure because it would be less profitable for them. Not much to debate here.

With all due respect. Please refrain from talking about things, you admittedly know little about ITT. I do not wish to debate legalese with you.

I would however, like to get your opinion on the video I posted. Or the post where I showed that a independent third party already "verified" me for Intertops. Would love to debate those with you.
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Old 01-08-2012, 06:44 PM   #155
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
I don't see the forums filled with people complaining they can't cash out from Intertops, so I hardly think this is being done to freeroll people. I'm sure part of the reason is that most people just go ahead and send the ID; the "hoops" here aren't really all that onerous.
The 'hoops' involve Intertops keeping all the details on record that would be required for identity theft (your passport details , a photo, etc.)

We always see stories of major companies that supposedly everybody trusted, being hacked and thouands of customer personal details being stolen.

I don't blame OP for wanting to have the minimum amount of his personal documentation put up on the Internet, and I don't think Intertops' request is reasonable here (for the reasons that we're discussing)

What happens if your passport photo ends up in a hacker hands? Perhaps the passport will be cancelled, which is an annoying time and expense to have fixed (and could be very bad if you don't discover it's been cancelled until you're going on your world trip)

Certainly this is a little bit "tinfoil-hatty" but it does happen, and why should Intertops force OP to engage in the risk at all?

Quote:
Under certain circumstances, probably. If they're helping me launder money, either intentionally or through negligence, I would expect that they could be breaking laws or at the very least rules of their gaming license.
How does it help to launder money to deposit money via one method and withdraw the same amount via the same method?

If we were talking real banknotes at a B&M casino, it helps because you get different-numbered banknotes back from what you deposited. But with an electronic wallet transaction there is no difference.

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And what if they have reason now to suspect that he's underage?
The passport with the photo and serial number blacked out would do just as well as one with the photo not blacked out. (They don't know what he looks like to compare it anyway).

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If he is, they already have a problem in having allowed him to deposit in the first place, and they'd clearly have to refund his deposit. But they wouldn't give him any winnings, and they'd want to know so he could be blocked from depositing in the future.
This is heading in the direction of having to know the details of the laws in the jurisdiction Intertops is registered in. How stringently do they have to verify age? It seems to me that if someone were determined to play underage, they could just send false documents, or someone else's documents and Intertops would never know.

In my country at least, if casinos let an underage player in,they don't have to return funds lost but they do have to allow cashing out of funds retained and funds won (and get prosecuted in either case).
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Old 01-08-2012, 07:16 PM   #156
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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Yes I signed the agreement without them fully disclosing all relevant information. This was done on purpose by them as evidenced ITT.
How? It's in their TOS.

You're turning your ignorance into some kind of evil plot by them to keep your $50 or whatever.
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Old 01-08-2012, 07:30 PM   #157
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

^^^ That is a great question. How much money have they are they withholding from you OP?
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Old 01-08-2012, 07:59 PM   #158
newschool
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

Funny story for you Clamper.

I was a passenger in a head on car collision. The guy "fell asleep" and crossed lanes fully, hitting us head on. Clearly his fault, tons of witnesses....Got a free trip on a helicopter from the event. Neato!

Anyways, I hire this lawyer because at the time I was concussed and my understanding of legal procedures was at its infancy. But I did understand how contracts worked at the time.

So he draws up the contract, I read it, change a few things. He changes a few things and we agree on the contract. He gets twenty percent even though his "standard" rate was a third of all moneys collected. Why did he take twenty? Because everything is negotiable and I know about contracts and stuff

So after a year of this guy doing very little to nothing and right before settlement. He asks for his "standard" rate. Talking about how much "work" he did and cried me a river. All while driving 80k rides and wearing 2k suits. Clearly in bad shape:/ I had to almost die for this money and the guy that files three papers deserves more of it?

Now he never said the contract was fraudulent. After all he wrote it and signed it. Agreeing to twenty percent. His only recourse was to tell me how super standard it was to get 33% and have me agree to that.

Now when you hire a lawyer. It is under the impression that they work for you and are supposed to have your best interest in mind. I now know their only allegiance is to themselves and the BAR. But I digress

So I ask him a very simple question. Would giving you more of my money, be in my best interest?

You wanna talk about a deer in headlights. It was hysterical to watch this guy squirm and try to dance around that. Trying to apply BS logic to someone that wasn't buying was a treat to watch. Needless to say it didn't workout for his proposal.

This was the last time I every hired a lawyer.

Moral of the story DYODD. Don't believe someone else even if they are a supposed "expert" They are most likely not as bright as they would like you to believe. Be your own expert and take care of yourself.

Last edited by newschool; 01-08-2012 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:03 PM   #159
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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Originally Posted by djg1979 View Post
^^^ That is a great question. How much money have they are they withholding from you OP?
Bout tree fiddy
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:04 PM   #160
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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Originally Posted by newschool View Post
I have already run this by my lawyer and we read it quite differently then you.
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Originally Posted by newschool View Post
You wanna talk about a deer in headlights. It was hysterical to watch this guy squirm and try to dance around that. Trying to apply BS logic to someone that wasn't buying was a treat to watch. Needless to say it didn't workout for his proposal.

This was the last time I every hired a lawyer
Hmmm...
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:08 PM   #161
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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Originally Posted by otatop View Post
Hmmm...
LOL Your siriusly cereal??/I cant talk to my lawyer friend???I never said I hired him.

Dem straws are getting mighty thin. Eh?
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:13 PM   #162
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

It's just cute how you're obviously one of those rambling jackasses that would threaten to sue a store for not honoring a wrong price or something.

I'm sure you're a legal genius, and wish you luck in your future endeavors to right the wrongs of horrible sites following the TOS's you agreed to.
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:29 PM   #163
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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Originally Posted by newschool View Post
So we are in agreement then?
I am neither agreeing or disagreeing with you.

You offered a definition of a contract, then alluded to Black's Law Dictionary. I took that to mean that your definition came from Black's Law. Since your definition of a contract differed from their online version, I was wondering if you or your lawyer use a different version.

I see now that you say that the elements of a contract are defined in Common Law. Thanks for the clarification.

I have an interest in the legal system, and look forward to civil discussion with lawyers and laymen alike about law and how it is applied.

I'm hoping that we can discuss the finer points of law as it applies in your case. If you would rather not, kindly disregard my posts and accept my apologies for the interruption.
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Old 01-08-2012, 09:02 PM   #164
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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Originally Posted by otatop View Post
It's just cute how you're obviously one of those rambling jackasses that would threaten to sue a store for not honoring a wrong price or something.

I'm sure you're a legal genius, and wish you luck in your future endeavors to right the wrongs of horrible sites following the TOS's you agreed to.
Cute am I? Are you flirting with me? Just so you know, I'm taken. But kisses anyways:P

Its not hard to destroy your position. Not because I am a legal genius, but because I am in the right. You have the impossible position to defend. And this is why your so mad, because you cannot use logic and reason to defend that position. So you resort to name calling, personal slanders, and crazy conspiracy theories. Of how I am an underage, ID making fraudster. Which are all completely unfounded things, you made up.

Then in the same breath you accuse me of being the crazy tin foil hat wearer. For not wanting to send sensitive info to who knows? For no reason, other then, they say so. You say so. It's "standard"

Then you go on trying to further justify the taking of my property against my will. After it was admitted ITT. That they DO NOT provide FULL DISCLOSURE. In order to make more money.

And you wonder why this is so easy for me? And why you are so mad? What's funny is that you are proving my point more then I am. And you don't even know it

Its ok. Deep breath. Your doing just fine.
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Old 01-08-2012, 09:12 PM   #165
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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Originally Posted by Clamper13 View Post
I am neither agreeing or disagreeing with you.

You offered a definition of a contract, then alluded to Black's Law Dictionary. I took that to mean that your definition came from Black's Law. Since your definition of a contract differed from their online version, I was wondering if you or your lawyer use a different version.

I see now that you say that the elements of a contract are defined in Common Law. Thanks for the clarification.

I have an interest in the legal system, and look forward to civil discussion with lawyers and laymen alike about law and how it is applied.

I'm hoping that we can discuss the finer points of law as it applies in your case. If you would rather not, kindly disregard my posts and accept my apologies for the interruption.
Well thank you for clarifying. I thought you were just trying to attack me.

I apologize if I was rude to you earlier.

If you would like to talk through pm's. I would gladly talk with you. Although I do not practice and cannot give legal advice. I will help a fellow student out, if I can. I do know of some very knowledgeable people when it comes to this sort of thing.

Regards
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Old 01-08-2012, 09:40 PM   #166
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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Originally Posted by newschool View Post
Its not hard to destroy your position.
K.
Quote:
Not because I am a legal genius, but because I am in the right.
Oh, okay. Go ahead and explain how you can agree to submit ID, then refuse to do so. I'll wait.
Quote:
You have the impossible position to defend. And this is why your so mad, because you cannot use logic and reason to defend that position.
You're*. I've used logic and reason to "defend" my position. Their TOS clearly says they reserve the right to check ID. You agreed to their TOS when you signed up. GG.
Quote:
So you resort to name calling, personal slanders, and crazy conspiracy theories.
I resort to name calling because there are only so many times you can say the same thing before giving up bashing your head into a wall.
Quote:
Of how I am an underage, ID making fraudster. Which are all completely unfounded things, you made up.
I never said you were underage or you made fake IDs. Try not being so stupid and I won't call you stupid.
Quote:
Then in the same breath you accuse me of being the crazy tin foil hat wearer. For not wanting to send sensitive info to who knows? For no reason, other then, they say so. You say so. It's "standard"
Your ID is hardly sensitive info. Obviously I'm not saying to email it to anywhere you want and nothing bad will happen, but I'd be more worried about giving over money to someone than a picture of an ID.
Quote:
Then you go on trying to further justify the taking of my property against my will. After it was admitted ITT. That they DO NOT provide FULL DISCLOSURE. In order to make more money.
Where in this. Thread. Was it. "Admitted"? It's hard to follow your seemingly randomly typed posts.
Quote:
And you wonder why this is so easy for me?
What's so easy?
Quote:
And why you are so mad?
I'm not at all mad, actually. I find this amusing.
Quote:
What's funny is that you are proving my point more then I am.
Then what now?
Quote:
And you don't even know it

Its ok. Deep breath. Your doing just fine.
You're*.
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:31 PM   #167
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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Originally Posted by otatop View Post
K.Oh, okay. Go ahead and explain how you can agree to submit ID, then refuse to do so. I'll wait.You're*. I've used logic and reason to "defend" my position. Their TOS clearly says they reserve the right to check ID. You agreed to their TOS when you signed up. GG.I resort to name calling because there are only so many times you can say the same thing before giving up bashing your head into a wall.I never said you were underage or you made fake IDs. Try not being so stupid and I won't call you stupid.Your ID is hardly sensitive info. Obviously I'm not saying to email it to anywhere you want and nothing bad will happen, but I'd be more worried about giving over money to someone than a picture of an ID.Where in this. Thread. Was it. "Admitted"? It's hard to follow your seemingly randomly typed posts.What's so easy?I'm not at all mad, actually. I find this amusing.Then what now?
You're*.
Tired, last one tonight. I did not knowingly sign an agreement to give such info. And I'm, in your words, the legal genius. They tricked me, or I tricked myself.

I will agree on this. No one got tricked, no one got scammed, everything is on the up and up. They were just holding my property, keeping it warm for me. It was just a standard security protocol. I will apologize for all my statements and clear up all the error. It was all a giant misunderstanding, for which I am sorry for perpetuating. I will admit. I did not fully understand the TOS and I am sorry for my misunderstanding it. If I would have understood it the way otatops presents it. I would not have signed up.

If you would, so kindly, give me MY MONEY back! And make right. Save us all from this continuing.

Or not and more LULz for all I'm going to make the best of any of the situations. I am more then a one trick pony. GOGOGOGOGOGO???
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Old 01-08-2012, 11:57 PM   #168
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kittens View Post
The 'hoops' involve Intertops keeping all the details on record that would be required for identity theft (your passport details , a photo, etc.)

We always see stories of major companies that supposedly everybody trusted, being hacked and thouands of customer personal details being stolen.

I don't blame OP for wanting to have the minimum amount of his personal documentation put up on the Internet, and I don't think Intertops' request is reasonable here (for the reasons that we're discussing)
Sure, this is a requirement I've never been super-comfortable with when I've come up against. It's only happened to me once or twice in the 40 or 50 poker rooms I've played on, but I complied each time. It's never caused a problem, but that doesn't mean it couldn't have, of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kittens View Post
How does it help to launder money to deposit money via one method and withdraw the same amount via the same method?

If we were talking real banknotes at a B&M casino, it helps because you get different-numbered banknotes back from what you deposited. But with an electronic wallet transaction there is no difference.
This is a good point. However, in this case, I believe OP said he deposited cash via Moneygram.

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Originally Posted by Kittens View Post
The passport with the photo and serial number blacked out would do just as well as one with the photo not blacked out. (They don't know what he looks like to compare it anyway).
Not exactly. I addressed this issue in part of my last post, but OP hasn't responded to that. There's no way they can be 100% sure of his identity - even meeting him in person with his passport wouldn't be foolproof. But it would be better than a photo of him holding his passport, which would be better than an unaltered copy of his passport, which would be better than an altered copy of his passport. They've drawn their line at an unaltered copy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kittens View Post
This is heading in the direction of having to know the details of the laws in the jurisdiction Intertops is registered in. How stringently do they have to verify age? It seems to me that if someone were determined to play underage, they could just send false documents, or someone else's documents and Intertops would never know.
Absolutely, yes - there's only so much they can do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kittens View Post
In my country at least, if casinos let an underage player in,they don't have to return funds lost but they do have to allow cashing out of funds retained and funds won (and get prosecuted in either case).
Yes, that's what I'd expect.
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Old 01-09-2012, 12:00 AM   #169
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

I went back and reread the beginning of this thread - I had completely forgotten how OP came off when he started the first thread. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they've decided to take a harder line with him than they might with others due to the way he handled things.
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Old 01-09-2012, 08:01 AM   #170
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

newschool u r a dumbell
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Old 01-09-2012, 09:45 AM   #171
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

Hi

The documents you provided could not be accepted because you blocked out all the relevant information required, this includes your photo, date of birth and passport number. To verify your address you inserted a piece of paper with your address printed on it which, of course, we cannot accept.

You were advised to provide a copy of your Passport/ ID page in full and utility Bill/Statement (no older than two months). We want to be able to verify the information that you supplied us with when registering for an account.

If you provide us with these documents we will happily process your withdrawal as quickly as we process any other withdrawal made by our players.


Best regards,

The Intertops Poker Team
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Old 01-10-2012, 11:16 PM   #172
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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Originally Posted by Intertops Poker View Post
Hi

The documents you provided could not be accepted because you blocked out all the relevant information required, this includes your photo, date of birth and passport number. To verify your address you inserted a piece of paper with your address printed on it which, of course, we cannot accept.

You were advised to provide a copy of your Passport/ ID page in full and utility Bill/Statement (no older than two months). We want to be able to verify the information that you supplied us with when registering for an account.

If you provide us with these documents we will happily process your withdrawal as quickly as we process any other withdrawal made by our players.


Best regards,

The Intertops Poker Team
Now I know this cant be real. LOL
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Old 01-11-2012, 04:32 AM   #173
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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Originally Posted by Intertops Poker View Post
To verify your address you inserted a piece of paper with your address printed on it which, of course, we cannot accept.
Oh, how I laughed.
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:27 AM   #174
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

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Oh, how I laughed.
+1000000000000000000000000
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Old 01-11-2012, 10:54 AM   #175
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Re: Intertops cashout issue?

Damn I actually missed that the first time I read it, thanks for making my day.
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