http://www.intellipoker.com/indexEN.htm

Pokerstars plans to start a school to teach the fish. I think this is the worst possible idea, educate the fish....nice. They say on the website they are going to have forums, blogs, rankings, lessons from pros, videos, etc. Greg Raymer, Barry Greenstein, Joe hachem, etc are going to be teaching it.

I e-mailed them saying how bad i think the idea is and how much im agaisnt them teaching the fish.I hope everyone will too.

lol +1 for Stars.

Great idea, bring back Lee Jones, lets educate the fish, thanks stars, >3

Emailing them now.

Do not be afraid. Knowing and doing are two totally different things.

Thats the thing, they are going to do it. They already started making the website, there are buttons in the software under help(you cant click them yet), etc.

This is horrible.

Two Plus Two is a significantly better resource than Intellipoker will ever be. And clearly, all 95k members here are world class pros.

I think this will just breed a false sense of being good in most the fish. It's going to take more then Moneymaker showing everyone how to live the luckbox life to turn a fish into a shark.

I think that this will make the fish feel comfortable playing real money which will bring more money into the games. Party had its own school for quite a while now I guess this one is more in depth but I think this will be good for the games. I could be wrong though.

Yea but 2+2 isnt owned or supported by Pokerstars. I bet you PokerStars plans to advertise it in there little pop up window and have a cool flashy commercial on TV saying something like '....Pokerstars.net the only site with an online poker school to make you a better player!'


Maybe im just paranoid but the idea of stars putting blogs, rankings, videos, forums, Lessons from pros(raymer, hachem, greenstein, Daniel N.) seems really bad to me.

I emailed them

Ridiculous thing to worry about. By this logic, Sklansky, Jones, Harrington, Brunson, etc should never have written their books, since "educating the fish" would tend to make games tougher.

I'm sure that you are the best player in existence, and therefore have much to fear from having to play in tougher games. But by this logic, you should be sending Sklansky an email telling him to close down this site--it also "educates the fish". While you're at it, why don't you petition ESPN, GSN, and the Travel Channel also? The hole card cams and discussion of strategy by the commentators are "educating the fish", and will make the games tougher. How will you ever be able to win with all these "secret strategies of the pros" being given away to Joe Sixpack?

pathetic...

This brings up something I never understood. If someone mentions 2p2 in a pokerstars chat (which I have only done once or twice) p-eople will jump your ass for letting "the secrets of the universe" go...

are people here really that insecure with their own game?

Like drug dealers offering the first "fix" for free in front of the schools....

Well all the things you mention arnt shoved into peoples face like it will most likely be on stars. I dont know why im pathetic for not wanting the fish to get smarter. Nice to see this thread is only on page 1 and were already throwing around middle school insults....

When Dr. Thorpe's blackjack book first came out the casinos panicked.

Then they realized that only a tiny percentage of blackjack players would ever learn to properly play the game, and all the others would continue to ignore the expert advice and play their own game.

Over 30 years ago I sat down at a blackjack table in Las Vegas and there were basic strategy cards on the table. The dealer said they gave free blackjack lessons several times a day, and dealers were instructed to always truthfully answer questions about basic strategy.

The fish still lost.

I wonder if there really is anyone in this forum that honestly believes that this is about educating the fish and not about having them believe that now they can try the real money tables...

If you're out there thinking that, please write where you play, what stakes and your handle at the tables.

Thank you

Precisely my point. Out of every 1000 people who read a book about card counting in BJ, only about 100 or so manage to read it all the way through. Only 10 will memorize the strategies and act accordingly. And only one will manage his bankroll well, abstain from alcohol while playing, etc. The other 999? Suckers... Not only that, the very knowledge that blackjack was a potentially beatable game created huge interest amongst casino-goers--even those who had no intention of ever truly learning how to play the game.

The same is true for any other potential advantage player--video poker, the few truly well informed sports bettors, and Yes, poker players--even we brilliant 2p2ers. How many people (even on 2p2) really know Sklansky's hand rankings for LHE cold? How many people keep track of all the dead cards in a stud game?

Many of the skills involved in becoming a world class poker player are just "grunt work" (just like counting +1 for a small card, and -1 for a big card in BJ). I've seen so few people who are capable/willing to do even this much. I don't think that any online "poker school" is going to cut into my EV very much, if at all. Just as with blackjack, it will create more fish.

The UIGEA did no harm either? Even if a small % improves....it will show....

You really should re-evaluate your definition of "horrible".

Fulltilt does just about the same thing and the play there is worse then stars imo.

Sounds like good news to me.

THis goes under the category of a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Inexperienced players are going to feel confident that they can now win.

The information to became a marginally winning player is available from many different resources. Having one more half asses resource will make no difference in the quality of play.

Wheres that dude that started a thread bitching about someone offering poker book advice at a table, im sure me and him will get along.

TBH, im very surprised that people are not totally agaisnt the fish having learning material right in front of their face for free. Even if most dont use it, if it only helps a small number get good, thats a small number that are no longer fish...

continue flaming....

That's pretty much what I was thinking.
FT sends you freaking strategy articles via e-mail too. They practically try to hit you over the head with some reasonable advice to stop sucking so much.

PokerRoom has forums too I think.

Just because Stars is going to have some forums where strategy is discussed does not mean that the fish are suddenly going to become good.

Thats becuase basic stategy alone will not make you a winner at the blackjack table. It will only make you lose less. You have to count cards to win.

The reason that even good counters still can't beat the blackjack games is because the stinkin casinos go to great lengths to stop them. They use automatic shufflers to enable them to shorten the penetration (heh heh, I said "penetration")into the deck without losing precious playing time, and when they do catch a counter they ban them from the casino and put his name in a book like a criminal.

Ok, I'm done being bitter about no good blackjack games anymore.

Anyway, of course making people think they can play better is a great thing for the games!

You don't really think that people who wouldn't ever take any initiative to learn the game by reading or coming to this site are suddenly going to become diligent students of the game because PStars will now have someone help teach them do you?

No. People who play the game for fun (namely fish) will always play for fun. They have regular jobs and play poker to pass time and blow a few bucks.

This "school" will only serve to attract more hopefuls like many at this site, some whom will become great players, some whom will tread water, and the majority of whom will never fully understand the game and leave the game and their money behind.

Full Tilt also has a strategy forum.

I am not against the poker schools under the ".nets," but it should be illegal to offer strategy stuffs (some detailed) on the .com sites, like starting hands by position, if it's a raised pot or not, and how to play post-flop. FullTilt even sends stuff like that on emails. It's next to the same thing as going to any casino and there being those on papers or so, like a Blackjack basic strategy (I think some sites have those too offered), or even the dealer telling what hands to play and recommends folding post-flop in a variety of situations.

It's supposed to be a neutral place and not some place where one's competition is improved; it goes under the name "collusion." If the casino itself wants to collude against itself (e.g. Blackjack), that's its own business, but it has no moral right to collude with the worse players, educate our competition; it took me some years to find and learn stuff that's offered on some .com sites - that's stealing time, money and energy from me. Under better laws I would win the case against them and get compensations.

Offline (and online) casinos may have poker books that they sell on their possible stores; that's not as bad but should also not be done. As an argument I could, when playing poker there, sometimes offer basic strategy cards for e.g. Blackjack players, and there's nothing the casino can do about it (though they could kick me out but the law will protect me, though it's not what usually is done, but one should just go to the police as all one did was offering basic strategy cards for some other fellow players). Stuff like that is usually the only way to do anything about things that are against my rights when the laws won't protect me. There's maybe nothing I can do about the online casinos here.

p.s. I would like to see the site rake tables also showing the average rake per hour, or so, one is paying playing this or that limit. But the only sites that are a sort of doing that are the ones offering more or less rakefree games. Now, what kind of a business is not saying how much it costs for its customers to play there? That's the single most important information that should be posted on their sites. Not posting it is illegal, as it's stealing, though not under the current laws.

"The reason that even good counters still can't beat the blackjack games is because the stinkin casinos go to great lengths to stop them."


Similar to poker-players...the number of card-counters who think they are good is FAR greater than the number of card-counters who actually are good.