Hi Guys and Girls

Thought I would finally join in with you 2+2’ers after lurking for a long time and hoped the heading would draw you here to flame. Just briefly, I started online poker with PartyPoker in 2004. Very small cash games – won for a while then a downswing and lost it. Put in a bit more and same thing. So there I was thinking “oh yeah, its online must be fixed – terrible beats”. But hey it was pin money and I was enjoying it.

Here in England we have a very respectable bookmakers called William Hill who have been around for at least 50 years and I found out they did online poker and switched to them thinking (no, knowing) it would be an honest game. And guess what? The same thing happened. Then it dawned on me – I was actually no good at online poker; I was tilting at bad beats and so played worse and spiralled down.

If I had stayed at PartyPoker I would not have accepted it was me but at William Hill I honestly trusted the name. So I started to study the game and started to play exclusively S&G’s because I enjoy the structures. There is a beginning, middle and an end and that is what I enjoy, not the one big endless slog of cash games (even though deep down I know that is where the real money is to be made).

Anyway, I have now played over 5,000 S&G’s across William Hill, Full Tilt, Party, various others and now on Stars. The level I play at varies between $20 to $100 games but in general I am playing the $39 6-man Turbos on Stars which I like. My stats across all sites apart from Stars show a ROI of 10%. How some of you guys have a ROI of over 20% is beyond me but you have my respect.

Now the reason for the post is to say Hi and I hope to join discussions in the future although I will not be a prolific poster and secondly to say that even after all the S&G’s I have played the conspiracy theorists almost dragged me down. When I started on Stars 2 months ago I lost my initial $500 deposit with the most horrendous suck outs mentionable. I almost gave up and went back to my trusted sites. However, my brain was telling me PokerStars are too big and have too much to lose to be anything other than straight. I re-deposited and re-focused and my ROI now stands at 2% on Stars. Not earth shattering but then variance is a bitch and I have played only 560 S&G’s on Stars. Hoping to get the ROI up to the rest of the sites. Then again perhaps Stars just have better players and I’m not as good as I think I am.

That’s enough for now. The moral is don’t blame anyone but yourself for long term loses. If you constantly lose you are just bad. Study and get better but stop griping about sites being rigged. Unless of course, for some reason all the sites have selected me to be one of the winners. And why would they do that? Exactly, they wouldn’t.

Rek

Please tell me you're a representative from William Hill, here to prepare us/promote the fact that they're gonna open up to US residents.......please?

no its still broken

nothing to do with Will Hill unfortunately lol

after reading the thread title, i was expecting this OP to be really moronic.

fortunately, it wasn't.


variance is big. that's what makes poker profitable.

is is isn't fixed?

Stars is rigged.

Yes, online poker is fixed. Al Gore didn't make it safe when he invented the internet.

Stars SNG's are rigged. Lost about the last 20 coin flips....really starting to piss me off

I play WH time to time with a friend in scottland. I'll say it's a pretty good site and I'd play there more... If I didn't have to wait 7 hours for a 9 player SNG to fill up. DAMN SLOW!

Played online for the first time last night, sslhe. One of my very first hands, flopped broadway, lost to turned quads. Of course, it wouldn't have felt any better if it was a boat. Lost 2 more times to quads for a total of 3 times in about 5.5 hrs. 1 flopped, 2 on the turn. No different than live game beats. Things happen. Playing live at Foxwoods, I remember one 17 hour session with around 3 straight flushes and 8 or 9 quads scattered among the players. Anyone without the experience may have thought the 3 quads online seemed out of the ordinary, especially when they all happened against you. If you play long enough you'll see it all. You have to, statistically.

Horrific downswing for hours after doing good early, realized it was me, made adjustments. Eked out around a 1BB/100 win. Around 3 a.m. it seemed like buses must have pulled up and dropped off loads of Europeans. Found their 3 betting oop with 52o amusing. PokerTracker was a mixed blessing. When I was up I spent more time looking at my green stats than the other players.

Yeah of course you flopped broadway and you lost to turned quads, that is rigged my friend I agree.

It was rigged 2 days ago. I hope it's not rigged today.

Lucky for me, Party SNG's are rigged in my favor. Stars is rigged against me, so it was an easy decision where to play.

It used to be rigged, but now it's fixed.

Enjoy.

pokerstars is definately rigged

stars is not rigged but they sure do hate me

I have played winning poker and made plenty money online since 1999. What comes to sites being rigged, it's a tough question that I can only answer with the above and by saying that so far I can't verify one single site that would for sure not be rigged.

Whilst we all know what infinity means the concept is still hard to grasp for many people. If online poker (or live poker) were able to deal an infinite number of hands then every possible scenario and statistic would be met. Therefore, AA would be dealt the correct percentage of times and would win the correct percentage as would every other hand.

Unfortunately, there would also be a time when the 1 outer will hit the river a million times or more in a row. The reason being that there are odds for it to happen (microscopic as it may be – but we are talking infinity here so it WILL happen at some stage).

Where on the infinity line such a ridiculous scenario would occur is anyone’s guess. It may be a gazillion years from now or it may be in an hours time. We just don’t know. But as sure as eggs is eggs it must happen. The point is, where on the infinity line we are at we can’t be certain. If we happen to fall at the start of a million I outers about to hit the river then never in our lifetime we will see variance even itself out.

The main point is it is statistically impossible to prove the integrity of a RNG without an infinite number of hands and we will never have this. So, if it is rigged or not I can’t say for certain but why would a respectable site rig it for say me to be a winner and another stranger to them being a loser. It doesn’t make sense and think of what they would lose if proof was found of it being rigged.

Whether a RNG can truly be random is another matter and I know not enough about computers to answer that one.

The only thing I would add to my million 1 outer scenario is that after say 500,000 1 outers hitting in a row the site would intervene and rig something because people would never accept it was possible and they would end up with no players.

Oops, what do I believe now?

If you posted this as a reply to realjaydub in the other rigged threads...I was leveling everyone.


Good job though, please show stat asap.

rek, you're posts are way too long

oh and my aces dont get cracked on WH but they do on stars and i dont even get any on FTP so that obviously says something

I'll keep this short then - great comment, very helpful

Its rigged, but there are some pretty good pattern mappers out there to help you win, none are perfect yet, but you can definitely expect to increase your winnings significantly.

And jesus it was a good level. You may have given josem a coronary...