If online poker becomes regulated(taxed) will it still be profitable? - Internet Poker

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If online poker becomes regulated(taxed) will it still be profitable?

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04-17-2011 , 02:41 AM

Spatz88

enthusiast

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 91

between rake + tax will the game even still be profitable? Unless they just charge tax on deposits to the host of the site? Considering rake is inevitable there will always be money to pay tax. I can't imagine people would be ok with depositing $1000 then only having $900 in their account after taxes and fee's.

the gov't is a scam.

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04-17-2011 , 02:47 AM

WaterFall21

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 3,255

well how bad are you

edit: Ur getting way ahead of urself anyways

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04-17-2011 , 02:49 AM

will1530

self-banned

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 5,773

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaterFall21

well how bad are you

This

Also the last bill that was introduced in congress taxed site revenue (rake) not your deposits. Whether or not a revenue tax would force sites to raise the rake is debatable.

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04-17-2011 , 02:53 AM

yorock

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 157

If it were to be taxed, I am pretty sure it be be close to this:
The sites would be taxed for their profit (rake minus overhead).
The players would be taxed on their net winnings, just like under current Tax law regarding gambling winnings.

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04-17-2011 , 02:57 AM

canada

newbie

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 21

net winnings at the end of the game, or at the end of a certain time period.

net winnings would be a player's operating revenue not profit... since players would win and lose games in the course of playing

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04-17-2011 , 02:59 AM

murdahc

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 1,243

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spatz88

it's sad, but i'd be cool with that since i rarely deposit. however i think they will tax ur winnings.

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04-17-2011 , 02:59 AM

yorock

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 157

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spatz88

the gov't is a scam.

I hope you'd prefer allowing us to play but taxing the winnings over the status quo, which is not allowing us to play, indicting sites on federal felonies, and freezing our bankrolls.

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04-17-2011 , 03:12 AM

sartoe

enthusiast

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 98

Yeaaaaah... if you were winning 1BB/100, and poker is legalized / taxed to hell... i'd be willing to bet you're breakeven / losing 1BB/100.

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04-17-2011 , 04:31 AM

icallunoob

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 611

Quote:

Originally Posted by sartoe

Yeaaaaah... if you were winning 1BB/100, and poker is legalized / taxed to hell... i'd be willing to bet you're breakeven / losing 1BB/100.

well i guess for those people there's rakeback!!

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04-17-2011 , 04:36 AM

#10

Wiki

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,939

It all depends on how greedy the government involved are.

If the tax level is not too onerous then it may be simply a matter of the operating sites making do with a smaller amount of rake compensated for by the removal of the need to jump through hoops to exchange money with players and the ability to go after scumbags who rip them off.

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04-17-2011 , 04:44 AM

#11

WaterFall21

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 3,255

regulated in U.S. would be the best thing for americans. Imagine if anyone could deposit money on whenever they wanted. frequent adds on tv from well known vegas casinos. mgm, wynn, etc etc. No messing around with payment processors will save the sites a ton of money too

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04-17-2011 , 04:46 AM

#12

chinz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 9,061

Quote:

Originally Posted by sartoe

Yeaaaaah... if you were winning 1BB/100, and poker is legalized / taxed to hell... i'd be willing to bet you're breakeven / losing 1BB/100.

That doesn't make any sense. If they are taxing yearly winnings and the tax percentage is 25% (I have no idea what it is in the US), it would mean 1BB/100 winner would be approximately 0.75BB/100 winner after the taxes. Year should be long enough time period to reduce variance in the results, so practically any winning player would still be a winning player after taxes.

And lolwtf overall at this thread, it's not like poker winnings were taxfree before in the US. I have zero sympathy for people who are worried that they might not be able to commit tax fraud anymore.

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04-17-2011 , 04:47 AM

#13

BankItDrewxx

enthusiast

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 94

Assuming a poker website is hit by new U.S. tax revenues:

If rake dramatically increases to something obscene like 10% rake per pot, the games will not be beatable. This will probably not happen though.

If the rake increases at all, then the profitable players cut-off line will simply rise.

If the rake doesn't change, then the poker websites are going to be biting the bullet and taking one for the team by paying with their own profits.

The issue regarding winning players being forced to pay taxes is not anywhere near our future date. It simply isn't even mentioned by any State officials yet.

<~~~ tax paying poker player in Canada FWIW

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04-17-2011 , 04:49 AM

#14

Wiki

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,939

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaterFall21

regulated in U.S. would be the best thing for americans.

That actually depends on two things:

1) The level of taxation.
2) Whether or not each state legalises only intra-state gambling.

The only way things would get better for Americans than they were five days ago would be if poker was legalised across the whole US with full inter-state play allowed and a reasonable level of tax that could be swallowed by the sites.

Other than that all they will get will be a smallish pool of players in each state and combined tax and rake that means that only the most profitable players and recreational players who don't really care about making a profit will be catered for.

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04-17-2011 , 05:07 AM

#15

DarkMagus

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Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 8,391

well i can profit live with high rake, tips, and expensive beer in the casinos. so surely a bit of extra rake online won't entirely kill the profitability.

plus, with regulated poker, it will probably be much easier to deposit, meaning more fish.

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04-17-2011 , 05:29 AM

#16

djg1979

adept

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,025

The logical thing will be to tax your cashouts when you make a withdrawal same as everything else. The government doesn't tax you until the money is about to be in your possession whether it be 401k, ira, or lotto winnings. Its probably going to fall into that category when this situation is resolved.

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04-17-2011 , 02:44 PM

#17

yorock

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 157

If Congress chooses to license and tax online poker, they will not tax it to death, because that would just drive it underground again, defeating the purpose of regulation. The sites would be taxed but only on their profits, so they'd still make money. The players are currently taxed on their net winnings (if they report) and there's no reason to think that would change, except that it would probably be harder to hide your winnings.

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04-17-2011 , 02:57 PM

#18

Alobar

Born Ready

Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 42,368

depends on how greedy the government gets with the tax and how much of it the sites pass on to the players. If I remember right french pokerstars was pretty much a joke for those reasons.

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04-17-2011 , 03:07 PM

#19

MoreDeadMoney

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 380

Quote:

Originally Posted by murdahc

it's sad, but i'd be cool with that since i rarely deposit. however i think they will tax ur winnings.

In theory you already should pay taxes on your winnings. I think the bigger point is that if you are able to play online again, you can expect a W2-G or 1099 when you withdraw.

MDM

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04-17-2011 , 07:59 PM

#20

nascent

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 202

Quote:

Originally Posted by yorock

I don't believe this is a given. When it comes to being reasonable and logical, government tends to disappoint more often than not.

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04-17-2011 , 08:30 PM

#21

damauler

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 163

I think it would be kind of cool of the land based casinos step up and make their own sites that can be tied into my land based player account.

I can see it now, using FPPs to book a room at the Encore for 3 nights with comped buffet on arrival for all my micro playing.

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04-17-2011 , 08:34 PM

#22

WorldWideBet

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 265

I'm just amazed at how many people don't understand how taxes work...

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04-17-2011 , 08:41 PM

#23

FuzzyDunflop

adept

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 848

they already tax your winnings, unless you just hoard tons of money in your poker account, when you cash out to a bank account, the IRS can easily see that money coming in and you are supposed to be paying tax on it.

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04-17-2011 , 08:43 PM

#24

5thStreetHog

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Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 7,687

Quote:

Originally Posted by WorldWideBet

I'm just amazed at how many people don't understand how taxes work...

Im amazed at the repeated implication in this thread that poker winnings arent already taxable.

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04-17-2011 , 08:44 PM

#25

5thStreetHog

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Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 7,687

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuzzyDunflop

Whether you leave all your money in your account or withdraw it is irrelevant. You owe taxes on every penny you make playing online poker. Im sure you know that just clarifying for others Fuzzy.

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