PBDave

On another forum, Rapala and Chester have stated that the suspected cheating names are

4pleasure(chesters)
Warmachine(rapalas)
Adebowale(rapalas)
Copperhead(rapalas)
Izaak(rapalas)

Bear in mind this was back in November. (seems Rapala brought a cheating aspect to u back in NOvemeber of 2008

PBDave!!!!!! Maybe u can investigate these names from your site and

1/See if they are still playing??

2/See if they cashed out large sums of money??

3/Possibly look up some of their hand historys?

4/ Check locations of these players to see if any of them are from the same locations?

5/ Check to see if any of them ever reloaded(went broke) If they played for a long time and cashed out constantly and never ever had to reload, that sounds fishy. You should have access to that information.

6/ What methods did they use to deposit onto the site?

ect ect ect.

Maybe it is possible to crack a flash site and there is cheating going on at Pitbull and maybe the cheating isnt being done by Pitbull but just an independant cheater.

i understand hypotheticals, but i don't understand why this pbdave guy doesn't come up with response like this: "superusers? are u out of your mind? our software is build in way that it's impossible to create superuser accounts etc."

he just comes up with shady response: "superusers? why would we?"

he doesn't deny possiblity of superusers on their site.

doesn't his response makes clear that it's possible for them to create superusers accounts?

You are obviously just defaming the site. Your reasons are beyond me, but in almost all cases like this it is because there is a losing player who don't like sour grapes.

I had left the thread. But now that you have told me to get lost, i think I will make it my mission to comment on every absurd idea you present.

Oh, another big LOL on you using IRS documents to prove your results. If i did not know better I would be sure this is a level. However, it is apparent your attempt is slander. Did you know that this is against the rules at 2+2? If this poker site were based in the US, your comments (and crappy play for that matter), would be criminal.

Chester, you are losing credibility fast here. Your tone and your posts have become more and more agitated. If you're looking for support here you need to come off as a little more patient. A handfull of your last posts have made you come off as a player with a grudge and not a victim of cheating.


I do wish you luck though. I really don't understand how giving out 1000 hands is impossible for a poker site to do. PBDave has been a little active on the forums (which is a great first step), but at this point I would have my support working overnight to get the HH's to the public to clear my name.

I have never played on Pittbull so i'm not saying there is or there is not cheating. I hope for the greater good of the game that Chester turns out to be wrong. Sadly for pittbull (and every other poker room out there) I think they need to be a little more active since AP/UP put a black eye on this industry.

You are right I do have a grudge. My grudge is that I believe myself to have been cheated and the site is playing dumb and hoping it will go away. That kind of makes me mad.

I don't think I have said anything unreasonable though. Everything I have stated is factual and honest. I haven't attacked anyone except to call them cheaters but there really isn't a nice way to do that.

I left pitbull roughly a 3k winner. I have had huge downswings on other sites and never complained. I ran like 75 buyings below EV at 1/2 and 2/4 PLO on cake this year and you can find that graph if you search my posting history. Never once did I even hint there was anything dishonest in those games. I have no interest in defaming any poker site and I am actually not enjoying this at all. It puts myself and my fellow props in an awkward scenario as we are supposed to be quiet about what we do and support the sites as best we can.

As far as the legality of online poker, that is debateable and not something that would keep me from entering a bet with you if you are willing. But lets keep thing on topic if that is OK with you. I have no beef with you and am not looking to argue for the sake of agruing here. Lets see if we can get pitbull to give us some hand so we can look at things objectively. We need facts here, not arguement.

BTW I created this thread to hopefully pressure pitbull into giving us more info, as they have pretty much been ignoring us on this. So if I say things that are not 100% nice that is why. Like I said there is no nice way to call someone a cheater.

I posted in another pitbull conspiracy thread that pitbull poker was the only place where i ever felt i was playing superusers. It happened vs two other users at 5/10NL who i didn't recognize from the smaller games that run more regularly. they played absolutely perfectly vs me over a small sample of hands. I attributed most of it to my own paranoia and frustration, but this has to be like the 3rd "Pitbull Poker cheats its customers thread", which seems pretty unusual given how many other tiny poker sites are out there.

All of these anecdotes are really just speculation though and we need HH's to establish any real evidence. Today i tried using their hand history search function to find the session i was talking about but it doesn't turn up any hands, despite the fact i know i played thousands in the time period i searched for. It sounds like chesterboy was able to retrieve HH's but he was having trouble with the formatting? I dk. It seems fair to request that PBDave disclose a number of hands in question if the users themselves are not able to properly retrieve them. PBDave seems like a nice guy but since he has strong financial ties to Pitbull Poker we can't trust his analysis of the hands and whether they're indicative of superuser play. Perhaps he could disclose them to a 2p2 mod experienced in the game in question (chesterboy's talking about lhe, right?). This solves the privacy issue and we can get an impartial analysis of HH's.

^^ With all that said I will note that I got my poker BR started with PBP and played lower stakes games without problems. Back in 2006-07 their cashouts took forever but of the two checks I requested in 2008-09 both were received within 2 weeks of request and cleared no problem. I cashed out my $ after the 5/10NL incident I mentioned earlier and only once redeposited to take advantage of their sick March 1k added promotion (I withdrew beginning of April), but I can't not recommend pitbull on the basis of that one experience. I think it's important PBDave prove the site is legit and superuser free though, which can be done rather easily (and much more effectively than "why would we do this" hypotheticals that actually defy the common sense he's trying to appeal to) with HH's.

Exactly

I've never played at pitbull, All I know is what I read here and at the other message board. The logic of those who say it didnt happen doesn't make much sense. I used to be one of those who said "why would a site cheat, they make a fortune in rake and they risk it all". Well Pitbull has 3 prop teams and almost no customers, they can't be even close to covering their nut.

As skillgambler said, we can't assume a superuser would play logically. They didn't at AP and that was thousands or millions of dollars. If I, or anyone with a clue about poker, had a superuser account we would never be caught. Lose some pots, make it look good. Non poker players may not know how to do this.

Lastly, I've propped with Chester for many years, he doesn't play as well as he thinks he does (sorry chester), but he is by no means a conspiracy fruitcake.

I really don't get why Dave doesn't put this whole thing to rest by sending chester or pigbot or rapala their hand histories. Just the normal hand history, no need to see other players hole cards on uncalled pots, just the history like every other site can provide.

Perhaps this has been answered by PDDave before....How can a site not be able to nearly instantly provide a player with his HHs....If these HHs can not be provided how can the site investigate any form of cheating/collusion???? Saying give us the SN , Table and hand # and other info is an excuse...PB has or should have quick access to the database and be able to quickly retrieve the HHs...

After the AP/UB scandals every site should be willing to openly and publically disprove any accusations of this type for the good of the poker community esp when it would most likely only take HHs from the players involved...

This lack of HH support will stop me from EVER playing at PitBull...

Why wouldn't he just email all the hand histories of the guy's play and let him figure out which ones he is interested in? When you email stars support you just tell them how many hands you want and they'll give them to you.

If someone will PM me the EXACT specifics of what HHs you're looking for, and what I need to do to look at them online, I will look into it. BUT PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, THINK - is this everything suzzer needs to know to get the HHs, every detail? I really don't want to have to be figuring all this out myself as I go, guessing at stuff, long back-and-forths of miscommunication, etc. etc. etc. I have a feeling I am going to regret this anyway, but I will give it a try.

Do not post the details here, just send PM.

FYI: Dave requested more info about my q5 vs AA hand that I posted in the other thread. I supplied him with the hand number and suspected cheat (if you haven't read it, it's under "stay away from pitbull poker" thread).

He is supposedly going to research this player as well the others playing at that table. I'm stating this now because I sincerely believe this to be evidence supporting cheaters/superusers on Pitbull Poker.

I also supplied him with a hand vs the same player just a few minutes later in which the same suspected player called my 3 bet raise cold from the SB, check raised me on the turn when I had a gut shot straight draw, then check-folded on the turn when I hit my nut straight (any pair or any draw would call $10 more on the turn with better than 7-1 on your money, UNLESS you held a low pocket pair that was "good on the flop" but drawing "dead" after the turn...)

I will post again if I hear back from him.

And btw, I'm just going to call out Full Tilt as the site that sent me an email and 219 dollars stating they found autousers against me a year after I last played there. So for everyone accusing Pitbull of anything, don't expect answers anytime soon even if things hit the fan.

So Pitbull dave comes into the thread and can clear this up by taking a day (at most) out of his busy schedule to get 1000 hand histories but can't bring himself to even do that.

If I was playing there then I would just cash out immediately.

Also, superusers on a small site makes far more sense than on a big site ffs.

Not to be an a$$ or anything, but with all the sites available to play out there, why the heck do you play pitbull?

just to reiterate: superusers don't have to originate from Pitbull... Dave responded by saying that they aren't cheating, but maybe a hacker/outsider is cheating the system

the way this thread reads, I think it's very probable that something is fishy with Pitbull

I wouldn't play there

First time that I take a thread like this remotely serious..

This! A big site would make enough from rake, pb obv isnt.. Which is why they cheat and angleshoot their way through everything..

Not acceptable for a site not to be able to produce hand histories on demand. I am looking for a new sites to play at but Pitbull will not be one of them because of the inability to produce hand histories.

Yeah, I don't think that's a very satisfactory explanation, given that between this thread and the other one, several people have made accusations of the same very unusual and suspicious behavior.

For Pitbull to suggest that they can't give you the HH's in a readable format AND to claim that the fairness of the games has been audited properly is completely ******ed.

I read through this whole thread and while some of the posts by OP and his supports are incredibly dumb (the guy with $160, splits pot, and only cashes out $60), I have to say that PBP looks incredibly bad right now.

Dave, you need to realize 2 things. The first thing is that you are not the personthat should be to reviewing HH's to look for the cheaters. It is completely plausible that you or one of your close friends is a superuser. Obviously you are not going to analyze hands you played, and confirm yourself as a cheater. You are not qualified to analyze the hands in this situation which is why the community is demanding the HH's. When you fail to provide them, it looks extremely suspect.

The second thing is that your reasoning for not having a superuser account is incredibly flawed and suspicious. As many other people have stated, a huge site like FTP that has a ton of rake does not need to cheat their users. They make enough to survive/profit and that is good enough. Small sites, such as yours, have a very small customer base and, from the sounds of it, little to no action at the higher stakes which generate more rake. Since you guys get less rake, there would be much more motivation to cheat people out of their money. A super user on full tilt would be able to make 0.001% as much money from cheating people as he would from collecting rake. A super user on pitbull could probably make more money just by cheating people, than he would from the rake income. Also you don't even MENTION that a superuser would be a disgrace/morally reprehensible/a complete abuse of trust. You just say that you won't do it because your site is too small.. WTF.

You guys are looking seriously bad right now and just from this word of mouth I would never CONSIDER depositing on your site. This is absolutely disgusting that you guys can't provide hand histories. If you can't provide us with hand histories, how can you get them yourself to analyze. And even if you can analyze them, how do we know you aren't the super user in which case you can just say "nope, its all good guys. move along". This is completely bull**** and if you are truly innocent (and for the sake of poker, I really hope you are), there is NO reason why you wouldn't go to extreme lengths to provide this community with the hand histories. AB/UP got hit hard when 2p2 uncovered their super user scandal and on a smaller site like yours, with no big name pros (helmuth, annie duke etc), you would be destroyed if anything shady was uncovered. If I was in your position, I would provide as much evidence as I could so people can see there is nothing going on. The bad word of mouth here will probably hurt you more than you realize.

Also, I've never seen a good review of the support on PBP. After all of these bad reviews I still don't understand why people bother with this site. There are so many alternatives out there. Just put your money where your mouth is and move off of sites with **** support and superusers.

Why do people keep saying this? Are you really that naive? They are chasing the fish. Sometimes, you gotta go to dangerous waters to catch the fish. Sometimes you catch them and sometimes you drown. But it's not at all obvious whether or not it's worth it without some experimentation and a careful cost/benefit/risk analysis.

Propping is a good deal with 100% RB. It is good low variance income. I've never had a bad experience like this before on any other prop site.

BTW if anyone has read this and thinks there is enough here to deserve some help from pitbull on the hh's, please post this thread to any other forums you may be a member of, or blogs etc...to help move this thread up the google search results rankings.

There are a lot of other places to play with loads of fish, such as bodog or some of the euro sites. I would NEVER play on a site with accusations of super users even if there was loads of fish (well maybe at the lower stakes )

But I think it's pretty obvious that it's not worth it when you keep seeing people post suspicious activity about a site. If you think a site has super users, the benefit is nothing and the risk is everything you deposit. Hardly worth it.

One little detail that blows my mind about this thread... part of the superuser problem on AP/UB was that legitimate players were losing money.

Chester, somewhere at the start of this thread you mentioned that you cashed out a profit from PitBull. How is it that you're being cheated, yet you're still winning? You must be pretty good at the interweb pokerz.

That's fair, you gotta draw the line somewhere. It just annoys me when so many people come on these threads and post stuff like "that's why i only keep my money on stars and ftp." obviously nobody is playing on all these small random semi-shady sites because they trust them more than they trust the big ones.