David,

Hate to complain again but please tell me Merge is going to be adding auto rebuy, auto double rebuy and auto add on pre-set buttons. I miss some add ons if I don't get back from break in time and having to wait on people to rebuy and then not being able to double rebuy is just not great. Also it would be great if it said in the lobby how long the rebuy period is since it varies from game to game.

If this has been addressed before in this thread just point me in that direction please.

Dave,
Along the same lines, do you know if the sit-out next BB option is coming? I know I asked before, but I am wondering again since it can get really annoying to get off of a table if you get a hand utg. Forces you to play another orbit, or lose a BB unless you are very fast.

Until that happens as soon as you get the button just click off auto post blinds, I agree that sit out next bb would be optimal but until that happens this works for me.

Yes, nice! I was gonna solicit advice, but I thought someone might offer up a better method than my current. Good job!

I ran some numbers (I'm not a great mathematican so correct me if I'm wrong). Here is what I get using the Centurion Level:

To clear this level you have to earn 13,625 points, during this time you will earn $107.80 ($2 DoNs) tournament entries for each step up + the play through bonus for moving though the centurion levels = $50 plus the level up at Legionnaire for $75 = total $232.80 + points to cash = $135 = grand total $367.80 VIP only earnings.

As opposed to earning VIP points at 25% =
RB for 13,625 points = about $476 (I think @ 10 pts per $1 rake) but you will have only advanced 17 levels and probably cleared your level up bonus and earned your step up DoN tickets = total $87.40 + $476 RB = $563.40 (not including the ability to use about $34 of your pts for tournament buy ins/rebuys as well)

So using these very rough (and possibly somewhat incorrect) figures RB is still better than the VIP program alone. Now as you move up to the higher levels I imagine the VIP program may equal RB but I haven't tried to figure it out.

Someone please look at these numbers and figure out how badly I screwed them up.

Hi, the other points I'm complying-about the rebuys and the timing out, they have been submitted before.

The RB plus 25% VIP is 100% better than just VIP alone full stop.
We'll have to wait for the final revision, but if you're on RB you also get the 25% of the VIP which is significantly better than just VIP alone. But for lower volume players, the VIP system has is own benefits aside from the bottom line as no many players find getting 35 cents back is better than waiting a bit and getting a 30cent or 60 cent ticket back.

In terms of comparing our RB with the 25% VIP system and the other sites, well I will assume that it is also comparable because the main value you get with the VIP system is the point exchange, which you can't do with RB anymore. But in any case, I don't think there was any question that RB with the 25% vip is better than just vip alone except for clearing bonuses quicker.

And guys, I'm always happy to have any discussion- you may not like my responses, but if I can't please you one way, I'll figure something out on another side.

Thanks David, as usual you're on top of everything and I really appreciate it. As silly as it seems the thing I hate the most is that as an MTT player (earning only 25% points) I'm going to have trouble earning the 250 points to get the 100 seats to the 100K freeroll seat and that's a soft tournament with a great value. Is there anything we can do about that?

Dave, how I do find out how long I've been inactive at my current skin? I'd like to check out your skin.

So should I have waited till after I cleared my deposit bonus to add RB? Or will the RB I'm receiving make up for the slower bonus release?

It depends, if you're a cash player or sng supers player and play a good bit then you're better off with RB if you're an MTT player then it might be harder to earn your bonus but as Dave said send him an email and he may can work something out.

Another solution to this issue: during the hand UTG, go ahead and click "Sit out". It doesn't sit you out immediately; rather, at the end of the hand, before the next starts.

You folks are sharp! ty

Skimmed the thread a bit and have a few questions...Do i understand correctly that US players who created an account prior to May 25th are still allowed to play but that if/when Merge begins accepting US players again Hero will not? Can someone explain that to me? Doesn't seem to make sense...If you intend not to serve the US market why allow current US players to continue playing?

Yes lets encourage dave to leave the us market altogether

I couldn't find Dave's other quote but it was something along the lines of managing risk. If he doesn't pursue new U.S. signups and limits it to only the current player pool, he avoids unwanted attention. He talked about not making the same mistakes that other sites made.

Does not compute....

We serve the US market...but only this much of it so don't come after us....Is that the thinking here?

Well wouldnt the entire network be at risk or do you think the feds would pick certain skins to go after?

I agree with that, so that is also part of the reason why it was increased from 20% to 25% (as well as the removal of VIP point exchange)- Again, the discussion will first have to start with RB vs the revised VIP program, so hopefully we'll have that discussion quite soon.

You can just send me an email at marketing@heropoker.com with your user name and I'll forward it to merge central for them to check for you.

I would say 100% wait until you clear the bonus (as it is on a 3 month time limit) then add the RB

Just to recap the above:
Hero will not be re-entering the US market along with Merge.

I think the primary difference in your opinion and our decision comes from you as player and myself with the responsibility to manage this company's direction and manage the circumstances. I'm sure as a twoplustwoer you've had a great deal of thought on the subject but I'm sure you can agree with me that this is a complex situation.

If you'd like to read more visit subject poker:
http://www.subjectpoker.com/2011/05/...p-us-sign-ups/
and you can also read my response on the site as well.

But primarily, our stance may still make no sense to you if you do not incorporate a number of other factors into your consideration or different levels of analysis. Right now it seems very plain black and white, but if you were able to take a moment and list out all the possible risk factors, all their possible consequences, all the possible responses, then consider that within the context of all the business objectives and the ability/resources of the company to manage or direct the focus of the company's actions (of course you can't do this for Hero, but just as an example)- then our actions may not be so illogical.

I'm writing this to you because I don't want you feel I'm just brushing this off and it is difficult to engage is this type of discussion between the player and the management when even someone within the company who is not at an executive level may not fully see all the true and significant variables. But the decision was made after weeks of consideration and with the information provided.

When people ask me about this, I mention 2 things. If PS/FTP knew what they knew now, would they still have continued business in 2006 after the UIGEA was passed? And, simply that, with no real new information forthcoming after BF, then based on that, our decision was made. My job is to still manage the company and in this case that first means considering every aspect/factor to make the best decision to manage the situation- that doesn't mean reacting to when something happens, or simply avoiding the issues all together, but rather being in a position to act.

so if i made a Hero account in April, I can still deposit and play?

Whats the best way to deposit. I dont have a checking account or credit card, but I do have a savings account.

@JerrysWorld, If you have an existing account with Hero you should have no problem making a deposit. In your situation Western Union is probably your only option.

Honestly, I know of quite a few people who didn't set up an account on a Merge skin prior to Merge leaving the US market and can't wait to set up an account as soon as Merge opens back up but I really wish they wouldn't open back up. While I'll really like the increase in player volume I can't help but believe the US DOJ would be much less likely to go after a company no longer soliciting US business.

I can't help but be made a little nervous by the Merge re-entry into the US market and I think David and Hero are super smart to stay out.

David would you please explain how an indictment of other Merge skins would affect Hero and Hero players accounts?

You are right I still do not understand. If PS/FTP knew what they know now perhaps they would have made a different decision as you suggest...but I still don't think that decision would have been 'we will still serve the US just noone new'. The situation seems black and white to me....you serve the US market or you don't. Party was in the same situation as PS/FTP and they chose to pull out of the market.

It just seems to me like the goal is to fly under the radar by not accepting new US signups. You are right though I am not privy to the information you have, I did not perform any risk analysis and it is not my responsibility to make any decisions. I was just curious about the line of thinking behind the decision.

It was not my intention to encourage him to leave the market or to reenter it for that matter. As I said I was just curious.

I would like to add that one of the reasons for my curiosity about the decision is that the OP was marketed towards attracting US players and it was made post Black Friday....then two weeks later no more US signups. So it seems more like lets get as many US signups as we can and then fly under the radar by not accepting anymore. So I guess part of my curiousity goes towards when the decision was made as well.

I do realize that all of Merge is currently not accepting new US signups but as of now the reason we have for that is so they can handle the growth and that at some point they intend to reopen whereas Hero will not.

One of the reasons for Hero to pull out and stay out of the US new player market, if I remember correctly, is that Hero's main strategy and what makes them superior to other sites and other skins is the boutique service. Hero made a decision to pull of the new US market before the other Merge skins made the same decision. The other skins made their decision to give them time to manage the new player load with the intention of later re-entering the US market while Hero stated from the time they pulled out they had no intention of re-entering.

In order to maintain the ability to provide boutique service it is imperative that Hero stay small and in order to do this they need to remained closed to new US players. And I have to say "flying under the radar" with the US government is pretty necessary as well.

Here is a prime example of the screwed up rebuy/add on situation and why this desperately needs to be fixed as soon as possible:


Merge - $0+$0.00|<> NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: 7,418.00
BB: 2,325.00
UTG: 5,300.00
UTG+1: 2,500.00
MP: 17,813.00
Hero (MP+1): 3,347.00
LP: 3,335.00
CO: 13,180.00
BTN: 15,381.00

SB posts ante 40.00, BB posts ante 40.00, UTG posts ante 40.00, UTG+1 posts ante 40.00, MP posts ante 40.00, Hero posts ante 40.00, LP posts ante 40.00, CO posts ante 40.00, BTN posts ante 40.00, SB posts SB 200.00, BB posts BB 400.00

Pre Flop: (960.00) Hero has K K

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3,307.00 and is all-in, fold, fold, fold, fold, BB calls 1,885.00 and is all-in

Flop: (5130.00, 2 players) 9 4 J

Turn: (5130.00, 2 players) T

River: (5130.00, 2 players) K

BB shows 7 Q (Straight, King High) (Pre 12%, Flop 4%, Turn 14%)
Hero shows K K (Three of a Kind, Kings) (Pre 88%, Flop 96%, Turn 86%)
BB wins 5,130.00
Hero wins $1,022.00

This happen right at the add on break and even though I was only left with $1022 and the starting stack with $2500 I wasn't allowed to rebuy but only to add on. So after that I only had $3522 instead of $6022 which I should of had.

When I tried to rebuy I got a pop up saying I couldn't rebuy when I had more than my starting stack which I didn't have but the crazy way it processes the add ons the system think I do.

On Stars at the end of the rebuy period there was a period before the add on where everyone could finish final rebuys and then the add on period starts. Sorry to beat a dead horse here but this is annoying as hell! I hope Merge is working on a fix for this SOON!

And don't I run good, lol :-)

Yes, rebuys also need to be allowed as soon as you sit at the table. Imagine you start with the BB and it folds all the way around. Other players get rebuys processed but you can't since you now have 1510 chips. Next hand you get AA in the SB and some stacks that rebought start shoving all in. This hasn't happened to me but it is possible and I would be extremely pissed if something similar happened to me.