The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition - Page 999 - Internet Poker

I am not sure if we don't disagree that we don't disagree when I didn't disagree about us not disagreeing on no disagreement that nobody disagreed on while not disagreeing to disagree.

Disagree?

P.S. No Lizard People were harmed (or not un-dis-un harmed) while making (or not not making) this post.

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08-19-2010 , 11:14 AM

#24952

Wiki

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,939

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monteroy

I am up for the challenge.

I am not sure if we don't disagree that we don't disagree when I didn't disagree about us not disagreeing on no disagreement that nobody disagreed on while not disagreeing to disagree.

Disagree?

P.S. No Lizard People were harmed (or not un-dis-un harmed) while making (or not not making) this post.

+1

I agree that there's a general lack of disagreement about that.

Last edited by Wiki; 08-19-2010 at 11:19 AM.

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08-19-2010 , 11:18 AM

#24953

Wiki

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,939

Quote:

Originally Posted by No.1 pencil

This has got to be the longest/dumbest thread in internet history, so I wanna be a part of it for at least one post...

Congratulations. You've just made it a little bit dumber.

It happens by increments, you know.

Quote:

Nobody can prove one way or another whether online poker is rigged. That's what makes this thread so dumb. And people who defend online poker as not being rigged look just as dumb and naive as those claiming it is. You just don't know and cannot know.

This has been posted many times but since rigtards are a little slow and uncomprehending ...

Rigtards believe that online poker is definitely rigged despite there being not a shred of evidence that this is the case.

Those of us defending online poker believe that it is probably not rigged because there is not a shred of evidence that this is the case.

Quote:

I'll tell you what I think will go a long way towards showing something meaningful. If online poker ever gets legalized in the United States, you can bet regulations will be so heavy there that there's almost no chance the deals will be anything but fair. Then we'll see. For now, I voted "rigged". I still think good players crush bad players online. But I think the deals are juiced causing far too much money going to rake. If there existed a full proof answer somewhere I'd be willing to bet on this. But such proof doesn't exist so we'll have to wait for US casinos to open online poker rooms. I'm thinking this will forever change the state of online poker and I'm not sure if it will be for the better or worse.

Yawn. Same old same old.

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08-19-2010 , 11:27 AM

#24954

TvSa

adept

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,014

i really dont get the theory that once USA gets in then there will be no more rigged online decks,
but i may have to agree/disagree with what has been previously agreed amongst though who paritally agreed with some of the agreement that had hereupon been agreed/disagreed with

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08-19-2010 , 11:33 AM

#24955

Wiki

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,939

Quote:

Originally Posted by TvSa

i really dont get the theory that once USA gets in then there will be no more rigged online decks,

It's nothing more than 'the grass on the other side of the fence is greener'.

With the added factor that no one has actually sown the grass yet.

It's pretty much a given that if the US ever get an endemic, government regulated industry there will be whoops of delight from the 'tards followed by a period of where they generate threads here saying that 'at last' they are seeing a 'realistic' deal followed by the 'collected thread' thread being overwhelmed by posts demanding to know why the US government isn't taking its responsibilities seriously and busting the arses of the new, local, sites whom, it turns out, are rigging the deal just like everyone else.

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08-19-2010 , 11:34 AM

#24956

MauiPunter

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,232

Quote:

Originally Posted by No.1 pencil

Lol. Is this turning into the "Existence of God" thread?

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08-19-2010 , 11:38 AM

#24957

Monteroy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 16,729

Quote:

Originally Posted by TvSa

Many riggies form a very strange offshoot of the conspiracy culture, as they believe the US government will come to the rescue and fix all of their conspiracies, while the norm among the paranoid crowd is that the US government is a huge source of conspiracies (ie: 9/11, New World Order etc).

Obviously any US legislation will do exactly nothing with regard to the rigged issue (as whether it is rigged or not is never an actual concern in legislation), so this effect is a bit strange. A bit of xenophobia at work perhaps.

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08-19-2010 , 12:06 PM

#24958

TeflonDawg

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 5,933

It has it's own thread and this is the OP, but I thought it'd be a good idea to put in here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exties

Hello everyone! This is my first post here, even though I've been reading this forum for a while.
So, I came up with this idea and thought about sharing it with you. I've been quite frustrated by thinking that many (if not all) poker rooms (poker stars, full tilt etc..) are rigged. I read many threads on the argument and this usually ends up with the good old "war" between "conspiracy theorists" and "websites defenders" that doesn't lead to much.
So what happens now.. most people think these poker rooms are rigged, and the rooms themselves keep on trying to prove this is not true by showing certificates of randomness and such stuff. Still - the doubt remains. And for as much as one can bring evidence of the rig, there will always be someone else pointing out that "that's how poker goes" "luck is involved" "a pocket pair of Aces could be beaten by 3-2 unsuited in real life as well" etc.

Has anyone ever tried to seriously do something about it until now?? I've been looking for it, but haven't found anything. So there's a very simple, cost free and effective method to ensure randomness in a poker game. That's how it works: (i'm gonna be a little bit technical now, but i'll try to make it simple, so bear with me)

1. the poker server shuffles a deck, using whatever random algorithm they like.
2. a hash is then created for the deck with a salt (a piece of extra random data to add to the shuffled deck string)
3. this hash is then sent clearly visible to all players in the room, to be used for verification after the hand
4. one player for every hand (for example the one currently on the button) cuts the deck (by picking up a number from 1 to 52)
5. the deck is cut and cards are dealt normally
6. at the end of the hand, the shuffled deck and salt are revealed, so that anyone can verify, if they like, the effective random deck being played.

that's all! this is completely cost free and implementable right away! For those unfamiliar with terms such as "hash" or "salt", i'll explain it in very simple terms now: a hash is a unique number that identifies data generated through a predefined algorithm. Such hashes functions are used all the time in any security environment and has been proved to be very strong and reliable (i.e. if u get the hash of a deck u can't reverse it to get the actual deck). the salt is a string of random bits used to compile the hash to make the reversing of it even more secure and impossible.

Go check these if you want to know more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptog..._hash_function
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_(cryptography)

if you never tried to "hash" anything, try it here:
http://www.fileformat.info/tool/hash.htm

So, I think that such a thing would definitely put an end to any discussion concerning rigged poker rooms. if a pokerstars or full tilt poker are honest and they really mean they offer a fair game, they should implement this right away, since it's completely cost free and would take 3 minutes to even a newbie programmer to implement into the system.

What do you think about this?
Couldn't we make something like a petition to make poker rooms do this?

I'm looking forward to hear your opinions and I apoligize if such a suggestion have already been discussed.

Here's the thread this post came from.

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08-19-2010 , 01:55 PM

#24959

Bingo_Boy

old hand

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,872

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiki

Yet sadly, if any regulation is enforced with a blaze of publicity it may attract some new players thus improving the rigtards results. They won't be able to quantify this and will view the improvement as a consequence of thier successful crusade against the evil poker sites.

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08-19-2010 , 02:01 PM

#24960

No.1 pencil

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 278

Quote:

Originally Posted by MauiPunter

Lol. Is this turning into the "Existence of God" thread?

Existence of God thread? Where?

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08-19-2010 , 02:08 PM

#24961

No.1 pencil

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 278

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiki

It's nothing more than 'the grass on the other side of the fence is greener'.

Do you live in the US? Are you familiar with how stringent gaming regulations are in most states? Or the fines that ensue when they are broken?

No. It has nothing to do with "the grass is greener". The chance that sites could get away with rigging deals is many orders of magnitude less likely than in (the Isle of Man?). And that's assuming anyone there is even policing the sites at all now. I'm not if this is true or not.

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08-19-2010 , 02:18 PM

#24962

Wiki

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,939

Quote:

Originally Posted by No.1 pencil

Do you live in the US? Are you familiar with how stringent gaming regulations are in most states? Or the fines that ensue when they are broken?

That's not the point.

We already know that there's no evidence that the current sites are rigged so there's no reason (from that POV) why there should be any improvement.

But the rigtards will still believe they are not making as much money as they should so, at some point after any putative regulation they'll just start whining again.

Quote:

No. It has nothing to do with "the grass is greener".

Sure it does.

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The chance that sites could get away with rigging deals is many orders of magnitude less likely than in (the Isle of Man?). And that's assuming anyone there is even policing the sites at all now.

You have no idea what you're talking about - or, should I say, xenophobicly ranting about?

Quote:

I'm not if this is true or not.

Well, at least you admit that you have no idea what you're talking about.

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08-19-2010 , 02:19 PM

#24963

Wiki

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,939

Quote:

Originally Posted by No.1 pencil

Existence of God thread? Where?

Google is your friend.

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08-19-2010 , 02:19 PM

#24964

KingOfFelt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 7,886

Quote:

Originally Posted by No.1 pencil

Lol xenophobia.

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08-19-2010 , 06:10 PM

#24965

No.1 pencil

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 278

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingOfFelt

Lol xenophobia.

More like fear of large sums of money being pushed back and forth with no oversight.

Quote

08-19-2010 , 06:20 PM

#24966

Wiki

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,939

Quote:

Originally Posted by No.1 pencil

More like fear of large sums of money being pushed back and forth with no oversight.

Except that there is oversight.

And if you want to indulge in brainless xenophobia, the IOM government hasn't embarrassed itself by letting any equivalents to Lehman Bros., Worldcom, Enron or Maddoff slip through its net.

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08-19-2010 , 08:03 PM

#24967

skcuSnawD

banned

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 128

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiki

Except that you can't.

Except that you can't.

Except that people rarely do.

Not equivalent to what you mention above and not at all rare.

Dunno. The garbage spewed by the rigtards seems pretty random.

Although I can see a few patterns in my mind.

ugh, ok

Yes you can, yes you can, yes you can.

I can play for 30 mins and produce bad beats after bad beats after bad beats. 2,3 outers left and right. You'll say lot more hands online. blah blah

yeah right, It won't even be a 100 hands and I'll be in only ~20

Its beyond a joke.

I feel good when way behind, confident.

A7 vs 22 on J62 rainbow board, I should be oh ****. But no I win.

But if I have AQ vs 98 on a KJ10 rainbow board, I lose.
obv straight flush on the river.

If you really believe all the bull**** you preach, come bet me on any all pre-flop on equity. You'll be beyond broke.

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08-19-2010 , 08:09 PM

#24968

KingOfFelt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 7,886

Quote:

Originally Posted by skcuSnawD

Did you miss the post by Monteroy where he is offering unlimited $300 to your $100 bets that you can't call out 15 cards correctly out of 100?

But you know you're wrong and will never take him up on that, right?

Here is the post because your 2+2 settings are probably rigged to 10 posts per page:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monteroy

Since you can call the cards out in advance in the chat box, how about a prop bet on that skill.

We watch a NL table of your choice and you call the upcoming turn cards 100 times and we see how many times you get it correct. How about we make it if you get 15 or more correct you win $3 for every $1 you will wager. Minimum wager you have to make is $100 in advance and in escrow.

Bonus $500 if you get 95 or more correct (aint I generous).

Since you can predict the cards most of the time this will be the easiest bet you can make. You may repeat the bet as many times as you like.

As well, you can pick the site if you feel you know the rig better at certain sites.

Spadebidder could give you the odds of getting 15 or more turn cards correct in 100 guesses, but I have no doubt I am giving you odds that can best be described as creative given your innate skills. I suspect he would be happy to book even more of your action as well.

Easiest money you will ever make, just let us know when we will be doing this bet so you can make $$$ from your super powers.

All the best.

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08-19-2010 , 09:16 PM

#24969

batair

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 16,802

Quote:

Originally Posted by No.1 pencil

Existence of God thread? Where?

RGT

Basically the same arguments as here only more complicated and exasperating.

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08-19-2010 , 10:07 PM

#24970

NFuego20

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 4,295

Quote:

Originally Posted by skcuSnawD

A7 vs 22 on J62 rainbow board, I should be oh ****. But no I win.

o rly? prove it

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08-20-2010 , 04:39 AM

#24971

Wiki

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,939

Quote:

Originally Posted by skcuSnawD

ugh, ok

Yes you can, yes you can, yes you can.

Except, you still can't.

Quote:

I can play for 30 mins and produce bad beats after bad beats after bad beats. 2,3 outers left and right.

That happens to everyone, what's your point?

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yeah right, It won't even be a 100 hands and I'll be in only ~20

Its beyond a joke.

It's beyond the truth.

Quote:

I feel good when way behind, confident.

A7 vs 22 on J62 rainbow board, I should be oh ****. But no I win.

But if I have AQ vs 98 on a KJ10 rainbow board, I lose.
obv straight flush on the river.

So you should be able to make a lot of money - why aren't you using your special knowledge to make a killing rather than telling everyone?

Seems like a missed opportunity to me.

Quote:

If you really believe all the bull**** you preach, come bet me on any all pre-flop on equity. You'll be beyond broke.

I believe that Monty has offered you a prop bet.

No point in two people wasting their time offering a rigtard a bet he'll never in a million years take up.

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08-20-2010 , 05:00 AM

#24972

TvSa

adept

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,014

have to say it's odd how this thread apes the phases of the moon,
dull, dull, dull, as soon as a new moon arises,
thread starts sparking off again

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08-20-2010 , 05:04 AM

#24973

Wiki

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,939

Quote:

Originally Posted by TvSa

have to say it's odd how this thread apes the phases of the moon,
dull, dull, dull, as soon as a new moon arises,
thread starts sparking off again

Hmmm, and as the shills don't originate discussions that would imply greater rigtard paranoia under a new moon.

Hmmm.

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08-20-2010 , 05:15 AM

#24974

TvSa

adept

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,014

it's full on the 24th this month...
just watch, just watch

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08-20-2010 , 09:02 AM

#24975

LVGambler

banned

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 4,884

Is this thread still rigged with people who think online poker is rigged?

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