A rancher, the "Last American Cowboy" is not a business. He is a hard working honest man.

A poker room is a business, a profit making machine that will eat you up and spit you out without any remorse or honesty, any time of day or night.

Feel free to quote anyone who's ever said "It's 100% not rigged". I'll wait.
That's not how slots work. They payout on averages, no exactly x% every y days. If they did work that way, they'd be exploitable and not the pure luck game they are. Please quote said "country" laws. So all the "loose" slots I saw in Tahoe that paid out 93% didn't actually exist, because they'd be against "country" law, and would in fact deter people from gambling?

If you're not a troll, consider trying to play it off that you are, because if this is what you really think, you're quite dumb.

Under a system like you propose, it would be impossible to have linked jackpots. Do you have linked progressive jackpots wherever you live?

are people really now questioning Josem itt? ffs get right, people

http://www.ehow.com/list_5817696_las...t-payouts.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slot_machine

A roulette table offers the house an edge simply because the house doesn't pay true odds (not because the fields are arranged a certain way). The payoff on a straight up number is 35 to 1 (when it should be 38 to 1). Also the house wins all "outside" bets when the 0 or 00 hits (hence the nickname "house numbers").


** Funny that my dad dealt that game for almost 50 years and lost a ton of money on it, too (it was one of his vices).

Nice call, tk.

Whoop Whoop WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP!!!

Straw Man Alert!!!

It's amusing how true douchebags give themselves away by their naieve certainty that everyone must think in the same way thery do.

They cannot even comprehend the idea that there are a great many people in the world, probably the majority, who do not feel the need to cheat others, even if they could be 100% certain of getting away with it.

Except that it isn't.

That doesn't actually say anything.

Whoop Whoop WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP!!!

Straw Man Alert!!!

I'm quite prepared to believe that you are a member of a group of fanatics who have formed some mickey mouse religion but I would be interested to know upon the behalf of whom are you speaking?

Congratulations, you've just won......... the Hypocrite Of The Year Award

Cue bite.

Fated, I know you're not very bright but, surely, even you can understand the difference between making an argument for something and assuming it to be the case?

Or are you really that dense?

Well, at least you have the sense to understand that if you post arrant nonsense, someone is going to call you on it.

I don't know where you live, but I'm glad I don't live there. Where I live (USA), not all businesses try to cheat their customers for as much money as possible. Some undoubtedly do, others might try to cheat a little here and there, and still others simply offer a service or product for a competitive price. That's life. That's how people are. They're like that all over the world, by the way, not just my country.

And no, we're not 100% sure that online poker is not rigged. We're not saying it's not rigged at all. We're saying it's extremely, extremely unlikely to be rigged because of the sheer number of people who have looked for statistical evidence of all sorts of rigging ideas and found none. If any of the major sites (the ones looked at most) is rigging the deal, they've been incredibly clever about it. Unbelievably clever. Clever in a way that none of the incredibly smart people who play around with poker data and statistics for fun and pleasure have ever noticed.

Rigging the deal is a very specific kind of cheating. There are all kinds of ways to cheat, but rigging the deal is a highly visible way of cheating, one that would almost certainly get you caught very quickly for reasons thoroughly covered in this thread. If you're going to cheat, why rig the deal just so a bunch of statistical geeks can pounce on it, show it to other geeks, get the word out to the poker press and then the mainstream press, and basically put a huge damper on your fun? There are better ways for a crooked site owner or programmer to cheat.

Again, "rigged" has a pretty specific meaning in most people's minds and certainly in this thread. That particular type of cheating is the one that most people are saying is almost certainly not happening.

Take a deep breath, let it out slowly. Let the tension drain away. Repeat as necessary.

Now, take a look around the forum and you'll find that virtually everyone here is receptive to claims of cheating, provided only that the person making the claim brings credible, verifiable evidence with him. People make unfounded claims all the time, and the veterans on 2+2 have seen it all when it comes to poker. If you have no evidence, you'll be ridiculed and eventually ignored. If you do have real evidence, you'll see some pretty smart people coming out of the woodwork to see what you've got.

For now, the replies you're going to get will be variations of, "Come back when you have some evidence." Everybody really means this, by the way. If you do find evidence, please come back and show it to the rest of us. If there's a problem, everybody needs to know about it.

This is one of the two central planks upon which the 'the deal is almost certainly not rigged' is based.

Rigging the deal would be an extremely risky way to achieve any goal.

If you want to make money dishonestly there are far better ways of doing it. Methods that stand virtually no chance of being detected - or recognised as cheating on the part of the site.

There is only a risk to run a software instead a RNG if someone is able to
" Proof it ". You need a endless database, the knowledge to analyse..and and and...and still if you are able to proof it you still can discuss about the result.

But also with a random deck, if some new players look for a fair , legal and secure way to gamble they should not look for Onlinepoker

Here's what the opening post says: Since there are so many feedback threads, we are going to centralise them in one, so you can post you experience with Cake and if you would reconmend it for anyone thinking of joining (sic).

There are many players out there who genuinely want to know about other players' experiences and opinions in regard to the RNG/Software at different sites. Although I am disappointed in Cake’s initial lack of focus in regard to the security issue, I am responding to the directive in the opening post about whether I enjoy playing on the site and would recommend it to others. Yes, I do, on both counts. And my main attraction to the site is my faith in the integrity of the RNG/Software.

The thread-starter states that this is a centralization of all the Cake threads, not a dedicated thread to the recent security issue. So for anyone reading this who has doubts about the RNG/Software on the site you are currently playing on, my experience with this “security issue of a different color” has been nothing but positive at the Cake Network.

How in the hell did you gather that from my post?

Wat?

The problem is, karmatroll didn't want to actually discuss the RNG, he just stated that since they had other security issues, he could guarantee the RNG was rigged. Didn't have any other proof or evidence he wanted to share.

If someone wants to make unsubstantiated accusations about Cake being rigged, we have a thread for that already, and I'm sure most players would appreciate this thread not being cluttered with it. And if someone has some actual evidence, they would probably want to start a separate thread. So either way, while you could argue that anything Cake-related can go ITT, I think any RNG issues belong elsewhere.

This might not belong in this section because I intend to have a serious discussion –*and I hope it receives ample attention.

Why has no one ever mined the data? Variance is supposed to account for good runs and bad runs –*seemingly insane beats of which we're all on either end – that seemingly happen more often than they should.

There are numerous skeptics – I think that might become apparent with a little search around the forum. I have been a skeptic and I have been a mocker of skeptics –*I am a skeptic again, but intend to be a serious one.

Why has no one ever mined the data? There are millions (billions?) of hands to look at. Simply (although I have absolutely no idea how to do it – I need your help) create a formula that say, whenever someone is 10%,*or 5% or whatever to win the hand, determines whether that person ended up winning the hand. If this is done for millions of hands... variance does not exist. [B]Why has no one done this? And if someone has, PLEASE tell me about it.

After this is done, well... we'll see what we see. If everything seems normal well... then we do the real test. We see how fish fare over long periods of time (now one specific fish could be variance... but if we combine let's say... 100 of them... well, variance is eliminated). This seems to me to be one of the more important experiments. But I hope someone, manyones, take an interest in this –*and I'm talkin' I'd like suggestions, I'd like solutions, I'd like volunteers – I want to do this.

Take a look at this blog. It really got me thinking. Of course it could all be bs but it just seems SO specific and why would someone take the time to write it? Of course... coulda just been fun for him! But anyway... here's the blog:

http://fulltiltpokerrigged.blogspot....confirmed.html

Thoughts. Suggestions. Pioneers. Go.

... or is it tl;dr rigtard theory?

yea this is totally gonna get serious discussion you clearly have good judgement based on the idea of posting this in bbv alone

tarped

But he has a fair point. Why has no one ever mined the data? This thread might go somewhere and Why has no one ever mined the data?

I think I'm going to reheat the leftover chinese food from earlier and eat it while constantly refreshing this thread for updates on the situation. That is, if I can peel myself from the monitor for even one second.

HAHA. I do enjoy the sarcasm. However, I'm actually posting elsewhere as we speak. Just hope I don't get in trouble for posting in a few different sections. And hey, doesn't it give the recently bad beat something else to think about? Or perhaps, some solace? Or, for some, a way to hone their sarcasm?